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54 comments (post your own) feed
1 On Jun 19th, 2006, at 9:33am, Daniel Valdes wrote:
Yes indeed my church, St. Mark UMC in Atlanta GA does minister to homosexuals. They do not bash gay people, try to change gay people or believe that gay people should live a life of loneliness and isolation, rather, gay couples and families are invited to share fully in God’s bountiful table.
Dan Valdes
2 On Jun 26th, 2006, at 9:59am, Nicole Purdessy wrote:
No, my church does not openly minister to homosexuals. However, I wish that they did. I think that people that are suffering with unwanted same sex attractions should be able to get counseling and advice from a religious perspective and know that they are still loved by the church, not shunned because of their sins which are no worse than all of our sins. Most of these people that seek help and insight from the church are turned away because of ignorance and what they need most is understanding and help so that they can be brought to the Lord.
3 On Jul 16th, 2006, at 6:33pm, Janet wrote:
I really don’t know if they minister to gays, i think they should by loving them and showing them their sin. This is how i was made aware of the love God has for me. I saw my sins and that I would be seperated from God for eternity if I did not confess my sins and let Jesus forgive me. The church needs to love them but let them know that way of life is deadly. Love them but not their sin.
4 On Jul 21st, 2006, at 6:03am, Dan Valdes wrote:
There is an interesting thing that some people of faith do regarding homosexuality and that is trying to seperate the action of having sex from being gay. If I never have sex again in my life I will continue to always be gay. There is no love the sinner and hate the sin when it comes to being gay. That is a false notion. I am always gay. Love me or hate me. You can’t divide me into two persons. I am a whole human being. I am sorry my sexuality makes some people uncomfortable but please don’t try to split me down the middle. God loves me as God made me. Why is that so hard to understand? If only I could get more of God’s people to understand this basic issue I think the church could flourish so much more with a unity of purpose rather than divisive political issues. We are to love God and to love our neighbor. When you say hate my sexuality, you are in essence saying hate me. That’s the thing I struggle with in the SBC.
5 On Aug 9th, 2006, at 7:21am, Crystal wrote:
No, my church doesnt openly minister to gays. I think that they would be welcomed like anyone else, but would recive some sort of specail counciling with the minister like anyone else who has a problem and needs help. I know the church would want to help anyone in need, but they dont tell everyone that the help is there.
6 On Aug 12th, 2006, at 7:24pm, Richard wrote:
Our church is a small Home church and would minister to homosexuals or fornicators or adulterers by pointing out the sin of these acts and strongly urge these folks to repent or be turned over to satan and shunned as the Bible prescribes for anyone sinning overtly and haughtily.
Sin and evil are offenses against God. Homosexuality is both because God says so in Scripture, in many places. God says he also hates fornication and the looking at others with sexual intensions unless we are married by God to another of the oposit sex. No God did not make anyone deviate or queer or Homosexual.
7 On Aug 21st, 2006, at 10:26am, Dan Valdes wrote:
I am sorry Richard but God does indeed make some of us gay, queer or as you say “deviate” (deviate, by the way is a verb and not a noun, I suspect you mean deviant.) But the point is that some portion of the population comes out queer and that’s just the way it is.
8 On Sep 6th, 2006, at 2:29pm, Erik wrote:
Our church does minister to homosexuals. We also try to point out scripturally that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination in God’s eyes. God made all of us, but he can not make a person sin or live a sinfull life. Homosexuality is a perversion of man and not just another variation of man that God has designed. Many homosexuals defend their life style by saying that they were made that way. If this is so, then you would also have to believe that there is sin that God allows. Refer to 1 Corinthians chapter 5 and 6.
9 On Sep 6th, 2006, at 5:01pm, Eric Turner wrote:
No, my church (near a military base) does not minister to gays. I believe if the need were there, they would. That being said - homosexuality is a sin like adultery, drunkeness, gambling, etc. It should not be tolerated - just like any sin. We as Christians should not soften our stance on homosexuality, but we do need to reach out to them. It is hard to accept homosexuals in a conservative church due to ALL people’s belief that “once gay, always gay.” This is a predominant belief and needs to be changed. Homosexuals can change with the grace of God, just like alcholics, gambling addicts, drug addicts, etc. Sexual addictions are tough addictions to break out of because nonchristians don’t see many sexual behaviors or “excessive” sexual behaviors as abhorrent or immoral. Churches don’t want to address them because of the touchiness of the subject matter. Sexual addiction is probably the loneliest addiction out there. It destroys everyone involved.
10 On Sep 19th, 2006, at 10:46am, Sheryle wrote:
I think that everyone should read ‘New Testament and Homosexuality’ by Robin Scroggs, who is a devout heterosexual theologian. He teaches in a seminary college in NY.
I also believe that everyone should have to read how the various versions of the bible came about and how the content was ‘edited’.
The Lord God loves me and I am gay, not a deviant, not a sexual addiction. I have a domestic partner and we have raised three God fearing, loving heterosexual children. I personally was raised by heterosexuals and I’ve never had to ‘choose’ to be gay.
11 On Sep 28th, 2006, at 3:56pm, Lydia Cornell wrote:
I am astounded at the bigotry I read here. I am not gay, but my sister is, and she was made by God that way. God loves all his children and Christ never once mentioned anything worse than a pharisee—a self-righteous religious person who judges others, and focuses on the letter of the “old law” and not the spirit. Christ’s main command to us was to love one another. LEave judgement and vengeance up to God. Love your neighbor as yourself. And “let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.”
I am also astounded that this huge Baptist congregation makes no mention of the poor, the hungry or the downtrodden. This organization thinks it is doing good in the world, but this is not God’s work to be involved in fear-mongering and judging others.
And God would never throw any of his beautiful children into hell. We make our own hell by our belief in fear and our acquiesence to hatred.
12 On Sep 28th, 2006, at 4:34pm, Gavin wrote:
I agree with Sheryle & Daniel that people do not ‘choose’ to be gay, and as Sheryle points out, the bible in it’s variations has been rewritten and edited by many over the course of human history. Some people will use anything at their disposal to further their own agendas, including people’s religous beliefs. Scapegoating has been used throughout human history to distract people from corruption and evil deeds being done by their very own leaders. What I am getting at is this: because of the kind of fury this issue has brought out in so many Christians, many Christians I have known (heterosexual and gay, by the way) have turned away from their churches, which did not minister to gays, even though they still remained faithful to God outside of the church. This is a shame to me, even though I am not Christian myself, as I put great value on any faith that guides people through life and makes them better individuals.
13 On Sep 29th, 2006, at 8:45am, Staff wrote:
Hi Lydia,
Thank you for taking the time comment. I would like to respond to your claim that the SBC “makes not mention of the poor, the hungry or the downtrodden.”
As you will find in our topics section , we address a wide range of culture issues, including homelessness and hunger.
Other SBC entities like the North American Mission Board and the International Mission Board spend much of their resoures confronting these issues.
In fact, the SBC is the 3rd largest relief organization in the USA, just behind The American Red Cross and the Salvation Army.
As for the rest of your comments, we prefer to teach the entire Scripture, not just bits and pieces. This includes difficult yet true teachings about hell (by Jesus) and the Epistles, which directly address homosexuality. (Romans Chapter 1, for example.)
14 On Oct 4th, 2006, at 6:11am, Dan Valdes wrote:
This is a note to Staff regarding the teaching of the entire scripture and not just bits and pieces. While the SBC may teach that being gay is a sin, do you agree that the act warrants the death penalty? That is the entire scripture of Lev. 20:13 “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.” Let’s be precise here. The Bible says put us to death. This is a difficult passage indeed.
15 On Oct 4th, 2006, at 11:48am, Dr. Barrett Duke wrote:
Hi Dan,
You have missed a number of important points in our material on the biblical teaching about homosexuality and homosexual sexual behavior.
First, the Old Testament legislation to which you refer was delivered to the nation of Israel. It gives no indication that the same penalties were required by God in other cultures.
Second, the prohibition against homosexual sexual behavior occurs outside of Israel-specific texts. The New Testament condemns homosexual sexual behavior as well, but it does not legislate the death penalty as a response. So we recognize that God does not condone homosexual sexual behavior in any culture, but He does not require that homosexuals be executed for their sinful behavior in every culture.
Third, we do not say that having homosexual attractions is a sin. We say that the Bible declares homosexual sexual behavior is sin. Fortunately for all of us, God distinguishes between the inclination and the behavior. Homosexual attractions are not in themselves sinful. The sin occurs when they are acted on. The same applies to any other behavior.
I hope this helps to clarify our position.
Barrett Duke, Ph.D.
Vice President for Public Policy and Research
The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission
Southern Baptist Convention
16 On Oct 5th, 2006, at 7:01am, dan valdes wrote:
Thank you for that clarification Dr. Duke, however, it stands to reason that the God of Abraham, who gave the Hebrews the Torah and the Law and is still worshiped by the Jewish people (and Christians - albeit as the Triune diety) would still desire for gay Israelis to be put to death today following that logic.
17 On Oct 5th, 2006, at 11:17am, Dr. Barrett Duke wrote:
Dan,
Many people ask that question. What must be kept in mind is that the legislation in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 was intended for the nation of Israel over which God would be the king. You have framed your question a little differently, though. You have asked if we should “put to death modern day gay Israelis.� Let me begin by making an important point. The Leviticus legislation does not require execution of homosexuals. It requires execution of those who engage in homosexual sexual behavior. Again, it is important to recognize that God distinguishes between the inclination and the behavior, but I understand that this does not get at all of your question.
Now, even if one accepted the modern day validity of the Leviticus legislation regarding execution of people who engage in homosexual sexual behavior, it would be inappropriate for anyone other than a duly constituted Jewish governmental authority to carry it out. The legislation was intended for Israel as it governed itself under God, not for its governance over other nations, or for the governance of others over Jews, or for individual Jews to carry out against each other.
But there is another issue involved here. The question today is whether or not the current nation of Israel is the continuation of the nation that God established under Moses. If it is, then they are probably under obligation to do all that God has legislated for them to do. However, I think most people, including me, would say that the current nation of Israel is not a continuation of the nation God established under Moses’ leadership. This does not mean that the Jews are not still God’s chosen people. The covenant God established with Abraham is permanent. The Jews are still and will always be God’s chosen people, but the modern day nation of Israel is not the resumption of the nation God established under Moses. The modern day nation of Israel is a legitimate geo-political entity. It just isn’t the reconstituted biblical nation. So I do not believe Israel is under obligation to obey the Old Testament legislation that God gave for the governance of the biblical nation of Israel, including the requirement to execute those who engage in homosexual sexual behavior, and fortunately, the Israeli government does not think they must either.
Neither I, nor the people that I associate with, believe anyone should be executing people just because they are homosexuals or engaging in consensual adult/adult homosexual sexual behavior. God had good reasons for the Leviticus legislation regarding execution for homosexual sexual behavior in His nation, but He does not indicate anywhere in Scripture that He intended for other nations to adopt this legislation.
Barrett Duke, Ph.D.
Vice President for Public Policy and Research
The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission
Southern Baptist Convention
18 On Oct 5th, 2006, at 12:22pm, dan valdes wrote:
Thank you Dr. Duke but you seem to be finding ways of side stepping the issue by invalidating the current state of Israel as being the continuation of the nation established under Abraham. Aren’t the Jews the same people and Jerusalem the same city that it was when Jesus was crucified outside the city walls? Did God break His covenant with His chosen people in 1948? And why at that time when they had just been delivered out of the holocaust?
So, it would seem that as in Iran where Islam dictates that gay men be hanged or flogged, and indeed this human rights violation happens today, that the same punishement should be handed down by the modern Jewish state.
On what foundation do you claim the modern state of Israel is not the continuation of the nation under Moses? How would that fit into the estacological view of the Baptist theology? Does not the modern Israel fit into that paradigm?
Best,
Dan Valdes
19 On Oct 6th, 2006, at 8:04am, Dr. Barrett Duke wrote:
Dan,
I haven’t sidestepped anything. It appears that you just don’t prefer my response to your opinion.
There are many reasons why I can say the modern state of Israel is not the resumption of the nation God established under Moses. Here are a few: They have no Davidide king, they have no central worship system, they have not renewed their covenant with God and committed themselves to follow their covenant obligations. These reasons apply if you want to position them within the Old Testament model. It is probable that the Old Testament model was supposed to come to an end when God raised up their eternal Davidide king, Jesus. God intended Jesus to be their next and final king. Of course, they do not yet acknowledge the Lordship of Jesus Christ as their sovereign.
Therefore, their current government has not accepted God’s rightful rule over the nation. Baptist eschatology is not affected by this view. The final conflict will be against God’s chosen people, the Jews, in their homeland. Their status as God’s chosen people in eternal covenant with God through the Abrahamic promise has not changed. The relationship of their government to that of Ancient Israel is secondary at best. Again, this does not mean that I am claiming that Israel’s current government is not legitimate. It is a legitimate governing authority. It just is not the resumption of the Ancient nation of Israel founded by God under Moses, and therefore is not under obligation to keep all of the Old Testament civil law.
Barrett
20 On Oct 6th, 2006, at 8:43am, Dan Valdes wrote:
Dear Dr. Duke,
Well I suppose we could banter this point ad naseum. It just seems that the Southern Baptists are holding onto something they like, putting gay people down; but not holding onto something they find loathsome, killing people for being gay.
I thought that the law was all or nothing. It appears to me that you are picking and choosing Scripture that fits a modern day political agenda while electing to negate those parts that are clearly an affront to our modern sensibilities of fairness and justice.
With all due respect
Dan Valdes
21 On Oct 21st, 2006, at 10:36pm, JaneLovesJesus wrote:
What is the definition of ‘gay person’?
22 On Oct 23rd, 2006, at 12:02am, RCM wrote:
God loves his children, all of us, in spite of our sins. But is homosexuality really an integral part of His plan? Remember, if EVERYMAN were gay, the entire race would die, tomorrow.
23 On Oct 24th, 2006, at 2:44pm, Dan Valdes wrote:
Dear JanelovesJesus,
A gay person is someone who is same sex attracted. We fall in love, build lives, homes and create families with persons of the same gender. Bi-sexual people have attraction to people of same and opposite gender. Heterosexual people have attraction to people of opposite gender. Most people fall somewhere along a continuum between absolute hetero and absolute homo. A gay person is one that has more same sex attraction than opposite sex attraction.
24 On Oct 25th, 2006, at 9:47am, LandonSandy wrote:
I don’t know, I know many people who after “coming out” feel they have to renounce Christianity, then come to me as their “minister friend” for an explanation of this doctrine. I just could never look at a LGBT person and say “hey you need to destroy your entire life, starting with leaving the person you love” I would never leave my fiancĂ© no matter what coot told me it was wrong. Why don’t we ask divorcĂ©s to leave their 2nd spouses? Answer: because it doesn’t gross us out as much. I don’t know, the question is are you trying to make Christ followers or Republicans and traditional families? I think being accepting, even if we disagree, would cause more people to find God. We should avoid being the Pharisees…I would rather a person have a relationship with God and another LGBT at the same time than live a life feeling shunned by the very people that should be love to them...In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas
25 On Oct 27th, 2006, at 5:27pm, John Robinson wrote:
I would think the Christlike thing to do would be to administer to EVERYONE.
26 On Oct 31st, 2006, at 12:13pm, Susan wrote:
We either need to take the word of God at face value - as it is written - or we are subject to making the words fit what suits our own desires. The Bible couldn’t be more clear on homosexuality, it grieves God and it is a sin. As a Christian, I should desire to make God happy in all things - if the only person I find sexually attractive is the same sex as I, then I should refrain from sexual relations. As a Christian, Jesus is part of your body by way of the Holy Spirit. To make Jesus take part in your sin in that way is not to lift Him up, only yourself. God did make some with the inclination to homosexuality, just as He made others with the inclination to be addicts, gossips, murderers, materialists, etc. We are all sinful by nature, we each have our own cross to bear. You are to choose Jesus over your own sinful desires, that is how you show Him you Love Him. Pray about your sin and ask for His help....anything is possible for Him.
27 On Nov 11th, 2006, at 5:38pm, loved wrote:
My Bible says who so ever!! Thank you God that you made me a who so ever!!
28 On Dec 24th, 2006, at 1:40pm, kkp wrote:
Homosexuality is not a sin It is not a choice it is just part of who you are why should who you love affect your beliefs? Love is love no matter whom it is between.
29 On Jan 3rd, 2007, at 3:11pm, Sulyn Wilkins wrote:
Even though homosexuality may not seem to be sinful to many people, in the final analysis, it is God who decides what is sin and what is not sin. The only way we humans have any knowledge of the mind of God on these matters is through His Word, the Bible. If one does not believe the Bible is true and reliable, there is really no way he can know what God thinks or does not think about a particular way of life. Thank you for your comment.
30 On Jan 4th, 2007, at 2:16am, Steve wrote:
Dr. Barrett Duke said… “Third, we do not say that having homosexual attractions is a sin. We say that the Bible declares homosexual sexual behavior is sin. Fortunately for all of us, God distinguishes between the inclination and the behavior. Homosexual attractions are not in themselves sinful. The sin occurs when they are acted on. The same applies to any other behavior.” My question is - if God distinguishes between the inclination and the behaviour, why the commandment not to covet another’s wife, slave, ox etc. ‘Covetting’ is an inclination not a behaviour - isn’t it?
31 On Jan 6th, 2007, at 11:02pm, Kyle wrote:
I am an alcoholic. God made me this way and I accept it. It DOES NOT MEAN I have to drink and accept it as God’s plan. We all have sin and we all have “thorns” to deal with. As I have accepted my alcoholism, I deal with it every day. My church ministers to me as it should minister to homosexuals. It is a matter of practicing what you preach.
32 On Jan 8th, 2007, at 11:49am, Dan Valdes wrote:
Kyle, being an alcoholic does not at all relate to being a gay person. I suppose you are saying that not drinking for you is what you think gay people should do when it comes to matters of sex or relationships, but that only reveals your lack of understanding of the nature of human sexuality. That seems pervasive on this topic when it comes to many fundamental Christians. Being gay is not a broken condition that we need anyone to fix.
Dan Valdes
33 On Jan 26th, 2007, at 5:10pm, steve wrote:
To staff, on the 4th Jan (item 30 in this thread) I made the observation that a statement made by Dr Duke appeared to directly contradict biblical scripture. Given the status of Dr Duke in the SBC I would have thought that there would be a response. With respect I ask that you ask one of your various theologians to consider my question.
Warm regards,
Steve.
34 On Feb 23rd, 2007, at 6:40am, Ray in Bulgaria wrote:
I never really understood Jesus’ parable about the talents (Matthew 25:14-30) until I began reading the comments in your column. Jesus tells of how the Lord gives five, two, and one talent to each of three people. Later, he came to collect on his loan. Two had put their talents to good use and were blessed. One did nothing with his talent and was relieved of what he had and was cursed. Some of your writers say they are what they are and that is the end of it. One fellow is so gifted and talented. He even corrects people’s grammar. Yet, he smugly refuses to invest what he has been given in order to be a blessing, not only to others, but to himself. At age 74 I have invested my genes. I have three children and six grandchildren. Each one is an integral part of myself. My investment in life will continue long after I am gone. I pray for those who close their minds to “living life abundantly (or to the full)” as Jesus promises.
35 On Feb 27th, 2007, at 2:47pm, Dan Valdes wrote:
Can one only live the abundant life in Christ if they generate offspring? What about celibate priests and nuns? What about those unable to procreate? It seems that the parable of the talents is about taking the gifts that the Lord has given us, (whatever they may be) reasoning, compassion, the ability to create art, music, scientific endeavors, putting others first, etc..that is investing the talent God gives us that bears fruit, not only for our biological families but for the larger family of humanity.
36 On Feb 27th, 2007, at 4:12pm, steve wrote:
Dan, I really don’t understand why gays would want to stay in the Christian church.
I can understand that it must be extremely difficult for someone brought up to believe in the Christian ‘truth’ to discover that they are gay - a condition ‘the truth’ declares a sin. But to deal with such cognitive dissonance by developing a construct that tries to make these beliefs seem compatible is to create a delusion.
Surely ‘Gay Christians’ (an oxymoron) only have 2 choices - either expunge from their belief system the superstition based Christian belief that gay sexuality is bad or expunge the humanist belief that gay sexuality is good.
Of course, if some gays require a religious crutch to find meaning in their life then why not form your own cult (many others have). Simply have a dream where an angel tells you to whiteout all anti-gay references in the bible and use this new book of revelation as the basis of your religion.
37 On Feb 28th, 2007, at 8:25am, Dan Valdes wrote:
Steve, a gay person seeks Christ for the same reasons that anyone does, redemption and Christian hope..eternal life. Perhaps we all live with some delusions of one form or another but regardless of our clarity in discernment of Scripture, I hold on to the hope that Christ came for ALL. Gay and otherwise.
Take care Steve.
Dan
38 On Feb 28th, 2007, at 3:04pm, steve wrote:
Dan, you say that you seek Christ in order to find redemption and eternal life. As such you obviously have a faith based upon the bible. The question is, therefore, precisely what part of the bible do you believe in?
Apologists for Islam say that it is a gentle religion as evidenced by the fact that most Moslems lead peaceful lives. Such peacefulness, however, is because most Moslems choose not to follow those parts of the Koran that are abhorrent to modern society - unlike the extremists. The fact is the Koran can be used to condone terrorism and the same can be said of the bible.
Perpetrators of Gay bashing and other hate crimes (a form of terrorism) can generally find scriptures to support their actions. This is not surprising given that the bible is a compilation of stories written by ignorant men in uncivilized times. To build a belief system on such a hotchpotch of ambiguities and fables defies logic - a faculty your supposed god gave us.
39 On Mar 12th, 2007, at 7:13pm, eric wrote:
Barrett Duke, Ph.D.
Perhaps, sir, you could explain your organization’s fixation on condemning homosexuality [either the behaviour or the inclination] while allowing other ‘abominations’ described in the OT to go unremarked.
Am I to anticipate a call for a boycott of seafood establishments? Publically tempting Americans to taste the ‘abomination’ of shellfish seems to fly in the face of Leviticus 11: 10 - 12. Why are you not addressing this threat to the moral fabric of America?
Speaking of fabrics, when are you going to put a stop to the ‘abominable choice’ made by countless members to wear mixed fabrics? Are we to see a ‘hate the fabric but love the wearer’ campaign?
Are we to expect that the SBC medical teams will apply Leviticus 13 to their patients, or will they rely on the same modern medical science you so resolutely deny in your assessment of homosexuals?
When shall we expect a call for the repeal of the 1st Amendment, in fdavour of the first commandment?
40 On May 18th, 2007, at 11:08am, adrienne wrote:
while reading the comments posted, i was appalled by some of the comments. clearly the bible teaches on love, but it also states the homosexuallity is an abomination. we can go around believing that it is ok to gay but god will have the final word and all who have practiced the sin of homosexuality or any other sinned and have not asked for forgiveness will be judged and sentenced to into the lake of fire
41 On May 26th, 2007, at 11:13pm, James wrote:
Beloved,
God created and loves EVERYONE. However, He hates sin. ALL unrighteousness is sin—lying, hating, stealing and yes, homosexuality. Because of Adam, we are all born in sin. Jesus died and rose for us to experience a “new birth” which also brings about a new nature—the nature of God which reflects His love, character and holiness. Jesus delivers from any kind of addiction. You don’t have the “power” to kick the habit. Everytime you tried to kick the habit, the habit would turn around and kick you. But I’ve got to tell you that the God I serve is a deliverer. Jesus paid the price. If you really want to know how what God has to say about homosexuality, ask Him in prayer and read His word. In the name of Jesus, I command you to be healed, be delivered and be set free from all filthiness of the flesh and spirt, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. God loves each of us; however, He did NOT allow His son to suffer for us so that we can live any kind of way.
42 On May 30th, 2007, at 6:50am, Dan Valdes wrote:
Dear James, being gay is not a habit.
43 On May 30th, 2007, at 9:40am, Dan Valdes wrote:
“In the name of Jesus, I command you to be healed, be delivered and be set free from all filthiness of the flesh and spirt, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”
Who are you to call me filthy?
44 On Jun 10th, 2007, at 10:16am, donna adkins wrote:
got a call today which was very disturbing to me. I ama heterosexual; however I have a few friends that are not. They are very wonderful, special people who believe in the LORD. Why you asked me about the hate against homosexuals is apalling to me. Ask yourself, WWJD? He must understand what love is. And I truly believe that you do not!
45 On Jun 11th, 2007, at 2:14pm, Susan wrote:
God doesn’t “hate” your friends. What has been said (and it’s your free will to follow it or not) is biblical truth, straight from the Bible; God hates sin, and the Bible describes homosexual behavior as a sin. Man can call it “love”, but in God’s view (and only his opinion matters) it is a sin that should be repented upon - not celebrated. We should indeed think WWJD, and Jesus instructed us to run from a temptation - not embrace it. Please read the Bible as the one and only authority of God,( 1 Cor 6:9, 1 Tim 1:10). God loves your friends, but he hates the sin. He wants them to turn from their own understanding and submit to His. Don’t let Satan tempt you with his lie that all who “believe in the Lord” will be in heaven someday, even Satan and his demons do that..you must admit you sin, repent and follow His way as outlined in the Bible. If you Love God with all your heart, you want to obey Him (NONE of us can be perfect, but we should be trying to do His will).
46 On Jun 23rd, 2007, at 1:48pm, Morgan wrote:
‘Man can call it “love”, but in God’s view (and only his opinion matters) it is a sin that should be repented upon - not celebrated.’
love - a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
And who are you to judge the feelings between two people? Who are -any- of you to judge what goes on between two people?
With all due respect, you toss the word of God about very loosely, speaking for him instead of him.
47 On Jun 30th, 2007, at 6:03pm, Susan wrote:
In response to Morgan, thousands of men and women for ages have attempted to excuse their sins with the explanation of “love”. Married people excuse their adultery out of “love” for someone other than their partner. Unmarried people who have sex outside of marriage claim it’s okay because they “love” someone. Only God shows us what pure love is, and since I know that he loves us I need to concede that if He says I should not do something it is because as my Father he wants to protect me from unnecessary hurt. God’s Bible is an instruction manual for life, and I gave specific verses stating that homosexual behavior is considered a sin by God, (as well as adultery and sexual relations before marriage) no matter what man feels for the other person.
48 On Aug 28th, 2007, at 7:05pm, Tina wrote:
I am appalled at some the comments here, First let me say I have a brother that is supposed to be gay, 2 The bible states that it is sin.... End of story there is no working around it, If you are a christian what is there to argue about? 3. I love my brother regardless of what he does, But unless he repents he will burst hell wide open, I have found that many people want the bible taught in a way that does not point out their sin, and convict them But Have you read @ Thes? It clearly states at the end time churches no longer teach but allow sin,they want money, power and numbers to affect the true Church, I know that I will not go to a church that caters to people, not God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
49 On Aug 29th, 2007, at 9:54am, Dan Valdes wrote:
Tina says “I love my brother regardless of what he does, But unless he repents he will burst hell wide open”
First let me say that I am sure glad to NOT be your brother and secondly let me just put to you Tina, that perhaps you should focus LESS on your brother “busting Hell wide open” and more on the discarded and unwanted in society. Are you a member at Westboro Baptist Church? You sound like a Pharisee going around so much concerned with rules and regulating other people. Legalism is dead. Love abounds.
50 On Aug 29th, 2007, at 10:27am, Susan wrote:
I can agree that what Jesus preached was to Love one Another, that is absolutely true to His teachings. And when you truly love your Brother and you see him sinning, you are OBLIGATED to personally confront him (Luke 17:3). What good is saying you love someone, then sitting back and watching them get into a car to drive home drunk? A Christian is suppose to give their life over to Christ and He is to rule over it. Even Jesus’ own brother, James, taught that faith without ACTION is a waste. Please read James 2:17. Was James a “legalist” as well? Or do you think that perhaps he didn’t want his brothers death on the cross to be in vain? He loved you and wanted you to understand how to be a follower of Christ. I am praying for you.
51 On Aug 29th, 2007, at 1:24pm, Dan Valdes wrote:
Dear Susan,
“Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
Those are the words of the Lord.
52 On Aug 29th, 2007, at 1:30pm, Dan Valdes wrote:
Dear Susan,
Matt.6 1 “Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. 2 “Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.”
It seems frequently the Sermon on the Mount is lost on the fundies. I hope you understand this is not about paying tithes.
53 On Aug 29th, 2007, at 3:16pm, Susan wrote:
Dan, If there was an accusation to be made by the above verse please share it with me. Do you feel that I am attempting to put my religious beliefs on “display” for others to congratulate me? I have consistently stated that we ALL struggle with sin every single day. By your definition, anyone who states that their is ANY sin in this world is a hypocrite and judging you? That is plain nonsense. Of course there is sin that God wants us to avoid, and to think otherwise is foolish. If we can all do whatever WE please, why do you think they went to the trouble of writing the sins in the Bible? The devil is a deceiver, please don’t buy into his lies. You have chosen to not see the truth, but please stop trying to turn other followers away as well. By FAITH we are to follow Christ, whether we personally “agree” with his laws or not. When we are in heaven we will understand things that do not make sense to us down here.
54 On Aug 30th, 2007, at 1:26pm, Susan wrote:
Jude 1:4 “For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign Lord.”