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32 comments (post your own) feed
1 On Aug 24th, 2006, at 11:07pm, isaac neuteboom wrote:
Yes, because you are a christian, godly country.
2 On Sep 26th, 2006, at 8:30am, Linda wrote:
It’s one thing to think that other sovereign nations would benefit by being more like us and another to force and impose our ways upon them. On a question like this we should follow the “do unto others” standard. Would we want another nation, however wonderful they think themselves to be, to subject us to their way of governance? Would we want another nation to come in and take over “for our own good?” It is clear that many nations do not approve of Mr. Bush’s agenda. Would we want any of those nations to come in with Shock and Awe to “liberate” us? The question you pose is a slippery slope question. As such the answer must be a humble “no.”
3 On Sep 28th, 2006, at 3:11pm, Steve Hale wrote:
America is currently the leader in torture and has killed 10,000’s of innocent people world wide this year. Would Christ support killing and torture? Our Congress is voting today to define what kinds of torture is “OK”. They are also giving our President a free pass on the torture that has taken place in our name since 2001.
There is big money in religion and I guess the Southern Baptist Leadership is at the front of the line.
What will you say to Peter at the Gate?
4 On Sep 28th, 2006, at 7:15pm, Wendy wrote:
Christ said to protect those omong you that are weak and can not defend themselves. If you really think that America is the leader in murder, you should check the statistics for the great numbers of people that have been killed by people like Bin Laden, Fidel Castro, Sadam Hussein and Hitler. America is nothing like that...if you think that maybe you should remove yourself from this country and find a new one.
5 On Sep 30th, 2006, at 8:37am, Matthew Vandeberghe wrote:
In short, yes. However, the question should revolve around the variable of whether we are talking about the America of today or the America of the past? While our nation truly is great and blessed by God’s amazing grace, we have strayed from the path of righteousness (if one could ever say that we were_truly_on that path). As the Church, we must cease to draw together as separate congregations and simply draw together as Christ’s children as the Scripture commands. If we (myself being chief) heeded God’s calling and showed His love and grace to all through our own lives, the world would definitely be better off to mirror our country.
As a side note, Jesus never once slandered the Roman Empire or Caesar when all of Israel was under Roman occupation. How much more so should we, as a free people, speak reverently of those appointed over us? If you disagree with the President, pray for him. Pray that he will lead us according to the guiding of the Holy Spirit.
6 On Oct 4th, 2006, at 4:22pm, Phyllis Bono wrote:
I think more countries would be better off if they were like ours, because we’re a free nation. We have the right to worship God. We have the right to vote any way we please. Not only is voting a right, but it’s our Christian duty. We also have the right to say what we think, even though sometimes we think the wrong way.
7 On Oct 5th, 2006, at 3:51pm, Phillip Lile wrote:
On September 30th at this site Mathew Vanderberghe compared the President to “Caesar” and the administration to “The Roman Empire.” He said Jesus never once slandered them. The problem with this anology is he compares Jesus’ reaction to an Occupation Empire with that of our Country! I believe Jesus was not interested one bit with Worldly power!
8 On Oct 11th, 2006, at 12:56pm, David Herder wrote:
The question is “Would the world be better off if more countries were LIKE America?” This is really two questions to me. I am an American. I have never killed or tortured anyone. Most other Americans are just LIKE me. They have never killed or tortured anyone.
In fact, Americans are the most giving people on the planet. All of the Americans I work beside contribute to charities that support people in third-world countries. I have been on mission work in Mexico. I have been on mission work in Central America. Is there anyone coming to America from Russia or China to share the gospel with my neighbors?
The world needs more Americans. We do not police the world in the interest of World Power. The hunger for power is left to Kim Jong Il (North Korea) and the leaders in Iran. Even when we are stabbed in the back by our “allies” we tend to turn the other cheek and make every effort to do the right thing. This is America. I am an American. And the world needs more people LIKE me.
9 On Oct 13th, 2006, at 1:21pm, Matthew Vandeberghe wrote:
I agree with the position that Jesus was not concerned with Earthly power. Who needs the power of Earth when you wield the power of the Heavens? As such, that is a mute point. Perhaps I was unclear in my assertion. I am not comparing our Lord to our President. My point is that the nation of Israel was under _true_ oppression and yet, the Lord submitted to the authority placed over Him. The issue at hand for us as Americans is that we have true Freedom (not oppression, occupation, desire for world dominance, or any other such aspiration). How much more so should we submit to and respect those that God has allowed to rule over us?
10 On Nov 2nd, 2006, at 7:50pm, Tim Chisholm wrote:
Funny...just the other day I was thinking a similar thought. If more countries were like Canada, where I’m free to marry (opposite sex or same sex) with government funded healthcare for all, a much lower crime rate than our neighbours to the south, and a flag I can proudly display around the world on my luggage etc. I can choose to worship a god...or not. Why would anyone want to live anywhere else. After winning NAFTA challenge after challenge re: softwood lumber in the world court, the U.S. still won’t give us our money (4 or 5 billion I think). Yours seems to be a country that is constantly at war; usually brought on by your own government thru misinformation by the same media otherwise labelled as liberal. Canada might be a better choice (along with Germany, France, Spain, the Netherlands) for other countries to emulate. Up until our newly elected Conservative government came into power, we were a nation of peace-keepers...think Afghanistan.
11 On Nov 8th, 2006, at 8:46pm, terry wrote:
“America” has extreme good & extreme evil. Just like every other country.
I think every country would be better if more individuals followed Jesus’ example and the 2(really one as Jesus considered them as one) greatest commandments: Love God & love others as ourselves.
Then the world would be more like “Thy kingdom come”.
12 On Jan 8th, 2007, at 10:08pm, steve wrote:
This is a dumb question. To answer it properly requires knowledge of every other system in the world. A better question would be ‘would America be a better place if it were more like (say) Mongolia?’ At least it would sound less arrogant.
Anyway, if you answer ‘yes’ then ask yourselves…
Should all countries have America’s nuclear arms capability?
Should they be free to invade other countries to shore up their oil supplies (imagine your stance on the Iraq war if France had led the invasion)?
Should countries be free to murder their citizens through imposing the death penalty?
People who answer ‘no’ should at least acknowledge America’s democratic and judicial system (despite Guantanamo Bay). America also has an economy that most other countries would give an arm and a leg for (some have). And all the Americans I’ve ever met (I’m Australian) seem to be pretty nice people (in fact had one over for dinner last night).
Enough said - it’s a dumb question.
13 On Jan 23rd, 2007, at 2:30pm, Scott wrote:
America is great because of its acknowledgement of God the Creator as the giver of inalienable human rights, freedom to practice our love for God and others as ourselves, idealism and striving for truth and what is good, etc. America’s greatness comes from its rightouesness. To the extent that other countries lack these qualities they would be better off to be more like America. All in all the United States is among the greatest nations ever existed on earth. There are good people and governments everywhere across the world, but I think the question goes to do you think America is basically good or basically flawed. I see it as good. America has the real potential to approach the ideal. We have to work for it.
14 On Jan 23rd, 2007, at 3:56pm, steve wrote:
Gee Scott nobody could doubt your sense of patriotism but I think you take it too far. To assert that America is great because it is righteous is a closed statement that many people both within and outside the US would find offensive. It assumes that people who oppose the ‘American’ point of view are naturally wrong. Bear in mind that Sadam and his supporters also felt that they were righteous!
How do you define ‘America’ and how do you conclude that this ‘America’ acknowledges a “God the creator”? To me it seems implausible that a country is great because it believes in an imaginary being.
You say that you think America is good, some Iranian’s see it as the great satan. I can’t help but feel the answer is somewhere in the middle. I also feel I’m probably flogging a dead horse here but, based on the tone of your words, I strongly suggest you try to see things from an outsider’s perspective.
15 On Jan 24th, 2007, at 5:38pm, Scott wrote:
Steve, I appreciate your response and I welcome the opportunity answer you. I hope I can help you understand my perspective because I don’t think I take it too far. I have considered many different perspectives, traveled to different countries, listened to theologians as well as atheist professors, historians, artists and businessmen, communists, conservatives and liberals. There are infinite number of opinions out there and always someone willing to tell you about them. I’ve come to my own conclusions not from a sense of blind patriotism, but because of what I have found to be true. (cont...)
16 On Jan 24th, 2007, at 6:18pm, Scott wrote:
I know I don’t fully understand your perspective but I do see you have assumptions that you might not even be aware of. Do you think that to assert that God is an imaginary being is a closed statement that many people in and out of the U.S.A. would find offensive? That’s O.K. because we all have the right to express a wide diversity of opinions, but maybe you should try to understand that the reason this right is protected in America is because the founding fathers believed “that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights…."(Declaration of Independence) The whole idea of us having individual rights came God’s authority adn a respect for each individaul he created. These were Christian men and Christ said” Love God love your neighbor as yourself”. Submitting to God’s authority ideally leads us to be less selfish, put others first and respect their God-given rights. (cont...)
17 On Jan 24th, 2007, at 6:38pm, Scott wrote:
...(cont) Yes I believe America’s system of government is good and it tries to address human needs limitations and desires, of course this doesn’t always exclude individual bad behavior. The idea is that no person or group should ever gain too much power and the “people” have the final say. And we are left with a framework in which to hopefully improve. Good and bad we all try to fulfill our needs. I believe the good people of America have great potential and most want peace and prosperity for everyone.
I talk about it with passion because I do love the America I grew up in. Its a marvelous place and worth defending. I don’t believe everything America does is “righteous” but we have been blessed because of our righteousness. Sure there are things I don’t like and things I wouldn’t consider to be Godly but when I see something I think needs to improve I invite people to build on what is good and not simply tear down. I hope you can feel included in the invitation.
18 On Jan 25th, 2007, at 4:52pm, steve wrote:
Scott, your reference to the declaration of independence is interesting. Surely if the authors of this document meant that America was to be founded on Christian-Judao principles they would have simply said “…they are endowed by God (not “their Creator") with certain unalienable rights”. Using the words ‘their creator’ bears a strange similarity to Masonic ritual where members are expected to pledge allegiance to a creator - no matter what the faith or belief system.
Going further into the declaration, the statement “… Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed (not God!!!),..” also demonstrates the authors’ belief that government must be secular.
If my comment that God is imaginary is deemed offensive then so be it. It’s a bit like telling kids that the tooth fairy doesn’t exist.
19 On Jan 26th, 2007, at 1:00pm, terry wrote:
Many were Masons. Which is founded on Christian-Judao principles. My life is also based on those principles, but if I was one of the founding fathers, I would prefer (in legal documents)to refer to God as “Creator” in order to allow individuals the freedom to believe as they want.
20 On Jan 26th, 2007, at 3:18pm, steve wrote:
Terry, I know that many of America’s founders were masons - which is the point I’m trying to make. Freemasonry is not based on Christian-Judao values (whatever they are - please explain). In fact most Christian churches, including the SBC, believe the tenets and teachings of the masons to be anti-Christian. So given this understanding it is clear that America never was - and still isn’t and, hopefully, never will be a ‘Christian’ country. It doesn’t matter how many american flags the right wing Christian fundamentalists wrap around themselves, the fact is that America has become the power it is because of its secularism and not, as these Christians would have you believe, despite it. It is this secularism that many other countries would do well to import from America (to get back on topic).
21 On Jan 26th, 2007, at 5:25pm, terry wrote:
Steve, Id have to disagree. I’ll tell you what I am basing this on. Ive read several books on Freemasonry, pros & cons. My dad is a 50+year mason & shriner. I seriously contemplated becoming a Mason. I decided against it because of the negative stereotypes so many people have about it that I didnt want people to prejudge me if they knew I was a member. As to Christian-Judao beliefs, freedom will not last unless the people act in a “christian” manner; putting others first. (note, I’m not saying people need to be “christian”, only act in the ways Christ exampled for us.)We are witnessing the decline of America because of that very reason. The American people vote (and politicians campaign on) for who will benefit themselves the greatest, not what is best & fair for all.Maybe my view of Masonry is not accurate. It is what I have experienced.
Good talking with you!
22 On Jan 27th, 2007, at 1:26pm, Scott wrote:
Steve, If individuals had no God-given rights then government wouldn’t have to defer to their consent.
1. “endowed by their Creator” with rights
2.” to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just power from the consent of the governed”
1. Authority belongs to God
2. Government serves people with God-given rights and responsibility of individual choice.
By this the Founding Fathers justified the Declaration of Independence from the King of England “with a firm reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence….”
They submitted to the higher authority of God of the Bible, and set up government according to these convictions without forcing their religious practices on any person. (from the Bible: “if you are unwilling to serve the Lord, then choose today whom you will serve.” Joshua 24:15. The choice and consequences are yours Steve) You don’t have to believe in these principles to benefit from a government based on them.
23 On Jan 30th, 2007, at 3:01pm, steve wrote:
Scott, you insist on injecting the word ‘God’ into places where the masons and agnostics within the founding fathers deliberately chose not to. Be that as it may I don’t care what or who inspired these people, the fact is that they founded a country based on a secular democracy. Such a democracy allowed for religious freedom. No religion was given precedence. In other words they did not create a ‘Christian’ country where the democratic process allowed for other beliefs and non beliefs to be tolerated. They did not impose a national religion.
The reason I harp on about this issue is that there are a number of conservatives that push the line that you’re not really an American unless you are Christian. It is, of course, the same sort of logic used to brand atheists as communist sympathizers back in 50s and 60s (although I suspect it’s a view still held by many).
Just think: If the US was Christian based - adultery would be a crime and slavery would be condoned.
24 On Feb 3rd, 2007, at 2:40pm, Scott wrote:
Steve: Who do you think they were talking about when they spoke of the “Creator” and the “protection of Divine Providence”? They weren’t referring to the leader of the Mason’s Lodge. Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, 9 were Freemasons, I don’t know of any agnostics.
I never said you had to be Christian to be American, only that USA was founded on Christian ideals; not that all-things-American are righteous, but America’s goodness comes from its righteousness.
As to your slavery comment, the major driving forces behind abolition of slavery and slave trade in Americas and Britain were Evangelical Christians and Catholic Church. Finney, Garrison Weld, Stowes, Rogers, Lundy, Lovejoy, Tappan, Clarkson, Sharp, Wilberforce, Wesley, Pope Gregory XVI, etc etc..…
Gotta go now Steve, Good luck, bye.
25 On Feb 13th, 2007, at 7:04pm, Chris Winberry wrote:
I think the world would be better of in general if more countries were like the U.S.
On the other hand we as a country are quickly getting further from our founders dream. A country that does not serve God will surely be put down by Him. And we need to be put down so our liberal elite class, and luke warm Christians will be awakened to His power and grace.
26 On Feb 26th, 2007, at 5:38pm, Chris Winberry wrote:
Googling my name resulted in this page, so I thought I should weigh in lest someone think that the above opinion is mine. Now you’ve got a 50/50 chance of correctly understanding my/his/our position =)
Subscribing to moral pluralism, I think there is a line crossed by some countries and, in those cases, a change of governance would definitely be a good thing. Beyond that, it would be a mistake to apply our viewpoints and experiences when judging other countries.
In short: no.
27 On Mar 27th, 2007, at 7:16am, redneka wrote:
America can not be the modal of doing right any more.May be by force.Is a country of evil.Killing for their own interest not for pleasing God.It needs to fulfill what was said by Prophet Isiah.Sure it draws the world to the end.
28 On Mar 29th, 2007, at 6:44am, Ray in Bulgaria wrote:
More than 11 million illegal aliens from south of the border by their presence in the USA vote “Yes!” as do countless numbers of people overseas who would like to joint them. In Bulgaria they have a “green card lottery” to select from those who would like to be in the USA.
29 On May 26th, 2007, at 12:48pm, Arslan Aslam wrote:
Heck No! If evryone was like America the entire human population would dissappear in 50-60 years.
30 On May 30th, 2007, at 9:46pm, John Hobgood wrote:
Stance on oaths of Freemansonry:(Master Mason and others)
To all of which I do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, without any hesitation, mental reservation, or secret evasion of mind in me whatsoever; binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having….
Master Mason Degree: “..my body severed in twain, my bowels taken thence, and with my body burned to ashes, and the ashes thereof scattered to the four winds of Heaven, that there might remain neither track, trace nor remembrance among man or Masons of so vile and perjured a wretch as I should be, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate this, my solemn Obligation of a Master Mason.”
And the ending for each of these obligations is:
“So help me, God, and make me steadfast to keep and perform the same.”
31 On Jul 13th, 2007, at 7:41pm, WOODROW MITCHELL wrote:
I THINK US AMERICANS ARE BETTER THAN ALOT OF WORLDS.
I BELIEVE THE FOLKS THAT CAME OVER HERE MANY YEARS AGO, WERE COMING TO LIVE A MORE GODLY LIFE. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE WERE GOOD INTENTIONS I DO BELIEVE. HOWEVER THE STATE HAS TAKEN CONTROL OF ALOT OF THE CHURCH/GODLY WAY THINGS OUGHT TO BE DONE. PEOPLE LEAD, RATHER THAN GODLY LEAD.
32 On Nov 2nd, 2007, at 11:07pm, Pendulum wrote:
As long as the country itself chooses to become more like America, it’s okay. But America has no right to butt into other countries’ business. Look what they did to former Yugoslavia! They were fine without Americans turning everyone against each other!