The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission | SBC’s ministry to homosexuals shifts into higher gear | Comments

Comment 1

Wed, 23 May 2007 14:22:30 CST

Ask Exodus or the folks at Love in Action or any number of folks in the “ex-gay” ministry what they mean when they say “Change is Possible” or “Freedom in Jesus Christ” and let us know.

Comment 2

Wed, 23 May 2007 14:42:50 CST

Per Dan’s request in Post 1:

From Exodus…

Exodus’ page dedicated to the topic ‘Change’
‘How does a homosexual person change?’ - Exodus
‘Is Change Possible?’ - Exodus

‘First Person’ articles from folks who’ve left the lifestyle... - Exodus

Also, upcoming on For Faith & Family Radio is former director of Exodus (Bob Davies). Look for it on Thursday and Friday of this week. (Podcast it.)

Comment 3

Thu, 24 May 2007 13:05:21 CST

“A major part of his work is informing Southern Baptists and others of the facts.”

The sad thing is that nothing could be further from the truth, especially in regards to human sexuality. The “ex-gay” industry is a puppet of the political right. Upon even cursory inspection that is easily discernable. The facts are that most gay people don’t stop having same sex attraction and it’s not even a stated realistic goal of the “ex-gay” industry.

The road to happiness is acceptance and integration not self loathing and suppression of your inate sexual orientation. The “ex-gay” industry is a sad joke being played with people’s lives leading to destruction and self condemnation. I would run for the hills from any program like that - try the United Church of Christ where they don’t use Jesus to oppress human beings.

Comment 4

Fri, 25 May 2007 12:23:57 CST

Dan, I wonder if you apply the same standards to people who deal with heterosexual sex addiction, alcoholism, or any other struggle?

While I disagree with AA’s emphasis on saying “I am an alcoholic” even for people who have gone through recovery I understand the need to recognize you may always have a weakness in that area.

I am also curious about the “growth industry” statement. Virtually every ministry or individual involved in this “industry” is in a constant struggle to provide adequate compensation to those providing help.

Comment 5

Tue, 29 May 2007 07:11:05 CST

Dear Mr. Stith,

I don’t exactly understand the question can you elaborate?

dan

Comment 6

Tue, 29 May 2007 07:18:12 CST

Being an alcoholic is about behavior being gay is about who you are inside. They are so different that to even draw a comparison illustrates one’s basic lack of acumen to counsel people regarding the issue. There is no guilt and shame in being gay.

Comment 7

Tue, 29 May 2007 17:29:27 CST

Okay, Mr. Stith:

I find it highly ironic that you use alcoholism as a weakness with which people struggle when you address Dan’s points. This is particularly ironic because of the agreeement in the medical and health communities that there is indeed an established genetic link to alcoholism- this is especially interesting to me, since you seem to dismiss so readily the possibility of there existing a genetic link concerning same-sex attraction.

Comment 8

Wed, 30 May 2007 21:40:46 CST

Thanks for publishing Dan and Rick’s viewpoint that is critical. An open dialogue here will indeed show the world that the SBC is interested in facts.

Mr. Stith’s ministry is good news in the narrow sense of recognizing the existence of gay Southern Baptists, but in another wider sense, it is indeed very troubling news as it cuts deep into the heart of gays who desire to be true to themselves while also trying to be true to their spiritual side.

I suggest the SBC first set up a ministry of compassion and listening before being so quick to tell gays they cannot be who they are.

Comment 9

Thu, 31 May 2007 15:20:08 CST

“If your child asks “What does being gay mean?” answer: “Being gay means that two people of the same sex have chosen to love each other in the way that God planned for a man and woman to love each other.”

I can see by the linked texts that you have selected to be the foundation of your “ministry to homosexuals” that it’s just more beating up gay people with “love”. This statement alone says that you don’t have a real grasp of homosexuality at all. You might do well to spend some time getting to know gay people who are integrated and not compartmentalized. I feel for any gay person who might end up under your pastoral care.
dan valdes

Comment 10

Thu, 31 May 2007 16:01:24 CST

I agree Dan, but I am hopeful pastor Bob will have a second conversion in the middle of his ministry to gays.

I was encouraged to discover that Rev. Stith has had extensive interaction with pro-gay Christian activists.

So my suggestion for Rev. Stith’s ministry is to find out more what the pro-gay Baptist and Christian churches are doing. This would be valuable information. Don’t just assume Exodus or other ex-gay ministries have all the answers.

Thanks again for keeping this forum open and I look forward to a response.

Comment 11

Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:43:47 CST

Thank you for making this an open forum. I enjoy reading what my Christian brothers (and sisters) have to say. I’m not skilled at debate so I normally don’t post on these forums, but I would like to say I am one who has turned from homosexuality but I was not coerced in any way.
I am a 44-year-old Christian, saved at age 6, but homosexual until 6 years ago. I was even refusing to attend church at the time I turned from it. I wanted only to know what God had to say about it, so I spent two years RV’ing across the US and building a new and genuine relationship with God. He was so gracious in that He never addressed my sin for 3 years. He was only about the task of building my trust in Him. Continued…

Comment 12

Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:51:24 CST

...continued: Once I began to genuinely trust Him in the good and bad, he began to speak softly and gently to my heart about my sin. It took me another 8 months to repent. I’ve now genuinely turned from it, but not because a human suggested it (I received many years of prodding, guilt, and rejection from humans - all to no avail). I repented because the God I love more than anything requested it of me.
Now, I am in the beginnings of a ministry at my church to reach out to homosexuals who desire change. No human can change anyone - only Jesus can, and only if that child desires change. He used a soft approach with me because He knows well how stubborn and untrusting I am, but it may be different for others. Continued…

Comment 13

Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:57:16 CST

...continued. I wish I could explain in greater detail how amazing our Jesus is when we allow Him to work on us.
But I will say this: though I believe very assuredly that homosexuality is sin, I know just as assuredly that our awesome God will never turn away anyone who desires a relationship with Him - sin or no sin. He loves the greatest of sinners.
I urge those of you who have the courage, to put homosexuality to the God litmus test. Don’t ask what people say about it - ask what God says. Then, wait on His answer, even if it takes 3 years.
Bob, don’t give up. You’re on the right track. I praise God for people out there like you.

Comment 14

Sat, 09 Jun 2007 06:16:53 CST

Margaret that sounds good for you but I would beg to ask you that if others had a similar journey and in earnest God didn’t change them, then what does that say about the person who did not change?

Comment 15

Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:24:16 CST

Dan, for many years I honestly didn’t desire change even though I was a Christian. When I made the decision to live by the Spirit, a lot had to change in my life. As I mentioned before, much else was dealt with before God finally touched on my sexuality. And still there is so much other work to be done in my life that has nothing to do with my sexuality. To answer your question, I would say this: even if change (and that word has very broad and varying implications, of course) doesn’t come, praise God that He allowed you a closer walk with Him. We always come away changed in some way when we walk in fellowship with God and being open to change in any area is primarily what He asks of us. It is the relationship with us He desires most (I’m still blown away by that), so keep your spirit open to whatever God would do with you and enjoy His company immensely!

Comment 16

Fri, 15 Jun 2007 14:35:14 CST

I would graciously like to respond to Dan Valdes’ question to Margaret too. I am only 21, and have only been saved for almost three years this summer, though I have been attending a church since my birth. Around age 14/15 I started seeking/desiring closer and intimate relationships. I found several actually in the next 4 years. Being in church most of my life I knew these feelings and relationships weren’t the norm. I tried earnestly to change. I prayed and cried on several occasion’s asking God to let me change these feelings and leave this way of life but they came with no avail. As time pasted with no change, I deferred my efforts. One summer night filled with heartache, fear, and a two hour discussion with a friend about Jesus. Left me knowing that Jesus couldn’t know me, because I had found out in those two hours I didn’t know Him. Thats when Christ came into my life and started making a change in me.

Comment 17

Sat, 16 Jun 2007 14:22:11 CST

That is a very moving testimony, Jarrot. I think that it is rather sad, though, to reach a point at which one believes Jesus couldn’t know him/her. It seems defeatist and calls into question the powers and abilities of Christ. I would contend that your feelings (same-sex attractions), while not necessarily the “norm” across society at the macro level, are just as normal to you as the feelings of heterosexual attraction are to “greater society.” Additionally, “knowing Jesus” is a life-long process; it’s not an end in itself. Desiring a relationship with Him (or any deity figure) that is based on fear cheapens the love and grace of God almighty.

Comment 18

Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:41:59 CST

Thanks Rick for you comment I greatly appreciate your view! I do agree with you it is rather sad when you reach that point. But God does say He will tell people, “I never knew you"(Matt 7:23 NASB), so I don’t question it to be defeatist or wrong to say He couldn’t know me. And by know me I mean know me as His child. And your right knowing Christ to its fullness won’t be completed in my life span. But I do see from Matt 7, we can seem to be very close to Him. Close enough to even cast out demons, but still never truly know Him.