The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission | Pastors, Pulpits, Pews and Potluck | Comments http://erlc.com/ This feed provides all comments on "Pastors, Pulpits, Pews and Potluck." en web-master@erlc.com ℗ & © 2008 ERLC Comment 1 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment1 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment1 The description of homosexuality as “sexual brokenness” pretty much puts the writer into the category of ‘problem’, as opposed to ‘solution’

Try again when you find a writer willing to view everyone as whole, complete, persons, worthy of respect. It is the writer who is ‘broken’.

]]> Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:49:19 CST Comment 2 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment2 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment2 Sadly this whole essay is based on the premise that gay people need to change or be something that we are not.

Until you can meet us where we are it will be difficult for gay people to believe that “love” you keep professing to feel for us. 

I mean, imagine going to that potluck Mr. Goeke describes and being aware that everyone sharing the meal believes that you need to change into something you don’t naturally feel in order for inclusion into their community.  It might not feel like “love”

]]> Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:13:07 CST Comment 3 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment3 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment3 The two previous comments reflect one of the basic problems with our interaction with the homosexual community: their desire for acceptance of their sin—and implication that this is the only way that they will understand love.  The Scripture clearly teaches what you proclaim in the more liberal churches, Mike: that true love and compassion are found within the boundaries of Scripture.  What is not contained in the boundaries of Scripture is acceptance of anything that God has labeled sin.

]]> Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:07:09 CST Comment 4 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment4 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment4 Don’t “tolerate” me; don’t pray for me to change; don’t “love the sinner and hate the sin” (how condescending is THAT?).

Either see the Hand and Icon of the Creator in ME, his unique, beautiful, and beloved creation, made in His/Her image, as He/She would HAVE me be ... AND in the smelliest heavy-duty street person asleep on the church steps ...

OR

sell the property, have a big party, and everybody go home.

Christianity is a RADICAL religion. So’s the PRACTICE of it.

Father Raymond
San Diego CA USA

]]> Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:15:31 CST Comment 5 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment5 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment5 Yes the comments of #1and2 are what is going on here u see the homosexual sees themselves as doing nothing wrong and not sinning!But the Bible tells us different-we are of course to love the sinner while we all sin but hate the sin.Homosexuality is WRONG! God didn’t mean for man/man or woman/woman to be together.If however they come into our church doors yes they r to be treated with respect and hopefully pray that the spirit of the Lord will touch them and open their eyes if only for a moment to see his glory and let him show them the err of their ways.the church afterall is for sinners!!Welcome them with open arms and pray!Just don’t let them have any leadership…

]]> Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:07:42 CST Comment 6 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment6 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment6 Dear Ms. Sanderson,

you write.."Welcome them with open arms and pray!Just don’t let them have any leadership…”

The same could be said for women and leadership in the church and in fact, has and continues to be the case in many churches. 

I’d rather worship where I am not relegated to such marginal roles within the church.  My church allows gays full inclusion and that feels like real love and I think we see God’s glory through full participation in the church.

]]> Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:48:51 CST Comment 7 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment7 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment7 Sin is sin.  One sin is no greater or less than another.

There are thousands of homosexuals that have changed their lifestyle through God’s Love.  It doesn’t matter how much love we as a church body give them or how accepting we are, it only matters if the homosexual accepts God’s Love.  Remember it is not a religion, but a relationship with Jesus Christ.

What Mr. Goeke writes can also be used for other problems in a church.

]]> Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:56:29 CST Comment 8 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment8 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment8 Jesse Sproat writes.."There are thousands of homosexuals that have changed their lifestyle through God’s Love.”

Do you know of ONE personally Mr. Sproat?  And by “change” just to be clear, I am speaking of dramatic, complete change in sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual, not struggling, not bisexual, not celibate but a true “change” in sexuality. 

If there are thousands can you produce hundreds, fifty, twenty-five or even one?

]]> Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:36:21 CST Comment 9 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment9 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment9 Not to speak for Jesse, but just to chime in briefly…

RE: Dan’s “If there are thousands can you produce hundreds, fifty, twenty-five or even one?”

Well, there’s now a published study…

Ex-Gays?: A Longitudinal Study of Religiously Mediated Change in Sexual Orientation (IVP, 2007) by Stanton L. Jones and Mark A. Yarhouse

Listen to the radio interview here.

Evidently, the Apostle Paul also new some…

“...Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, . . .  Such WERE some of you; but you WERE washed, but you WERE sanctified, but you WERE justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NASB)

I do find Dan’s caveat of ‘not struggling’ rather amusing.  I think we’d be hard pressed to find any human would claim that of any undesired behavior they ventured to correct.  (Think recovering addicts of any vice.)

]]> Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:47:01 CST Comment 10 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment10 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment10 In response to Mr. Valdes request for information:

Exodus International is an origanization that has helped homosexuals overcome the sin of same sex relationships since 1976.

They can be contacted at exodus-international.org

or

P.O. Box 540119
Orlando, FL 32854

407-599-6872

And if I remember correctly, the president of Exodus International was interviewed on Faith and Family by Dr. Land.

Mr. Valdes please read Romans 1:24 to 32, especially Romans 1:23.

And thanks to ERLC staff for the link.

]]> Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:02:38 CST Comment 11 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment11 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment11 Regarding the Jones and Yarhouse prospective study, designed to reduce the faulty memories of a retrospective study..

“Jones and Yarhouse wanted to limit their study’s participants to those who were in their first year of ex-gay ministry. But when they found that they were having trouble getting enough people to participate (they only found 57 subject who met this criteria), they expanded their study to include 41 subjects who had been involved in ex-gay ministries for between one to three years.” However that lead to problems with a prospective study as they had to then include the “faulty memories” they hoped to avoid. 

From the study authors..

“Our study examines a representative sample of the population of those in Exodus seeking sexual orientation change. We cannot be absolutely certain of perfect representativeness, since no scientific evidence exists for describing the parameters of such representativeness.”

So they study seems flawed by their own admission.

]]> Tue, 29 Jul 2008 18:51:42 CST Comment 12 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment12 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment12 I need to make a correction to my last post, I wanted to emphasis Romans 1:27 not Romans 1:23 for Mr. Valdes.

]]> Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:40:13 CST Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:51:56 CST Comment 13 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment13 http://erlc.com/article/pastors-pulpits-pews-and-potluck#comment13 Romans 1:23
“and, instead of worshipping the imperishable God, they worshipped images resembling perishable man or resembling birds or beasts or reptiles.”

The passage in Romans is seen as man turning away from God and falling into a idol cult worship where sexual activity was part and parcel of that worship.  Most people don’t point that out Mr. Sporat, thank you for doing so.

Actually Mr. Sporat I was inquiring how many changed gay to straight people you personally know and have regular interaction with.  I know all about Exodus, the sponsor of that study mentioned by the ERLC staff.

]]> Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:51:56 CST