Serving in the Public Square with Vice President Mike Pence

Today, we have an exclusive episode with Vice President Mike Pence about serving in the public square. Welcome to the ERLC Podcast where our goal is to help you think biblically about today’s cultural issues.

Since 2016, the name that has been synonymous with our current political environment is President Donald Trump. However, within the Trump administration is a name with which we should be familiar and should want to know more about: Vice President Mike Pence. 

In a special episode, we’re featuring a conversation between Vice President Mike Pence and ERLC President Brent Leatherwood that we hosted at the 2024 Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting. They discuss Vice President Pence’s journey into politics, the priority he places on his Christian faith and his family, and how we all can engage with hope in the public square.

In a polarized political age, we hope you’ll walk away encouraged to seek the good of your neighbors, engage in politics in a distinctly Christian way, and work together to be salt and light in our local communities, in our states, and in our nation. 

Episode Transcript

Brent Leatherwood: Hello everyone. I am Brent Leatherwood, and I’m privileged to serve as president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. But you’re probably not here to hear from me today. Instead, you are here to hear from a gentleman that I respect immensely, someone that I looked up to in my time as a staff member on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C. He served as the 50th governor of the state of Indiana, and he was our Nation’s 48th vice president. Would you join me in welcoming Vice President Mike Pence to the stage? 

Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Thank you for being here. One of the things, sir, that always struck me in your time in public service is you were never shy about your faith. So would you tell this room of faithful Christians how it is that your faith and your convictions working from your faith shaped your public service?

Mike Pence: Well, first, I’m truly grateful for the warm welcome and, this is home for me. So welcome to Indiana. It’s an honor to be with all of you. Brent, I’m grateful for your leadership. You could give him a round of applause. Sometimes the boss doesn’t get his due.

Appreciate so much and have for many years. The work of the ERLC. Our foundation, in Washington, D.C. has partnered in recent years on an important amicus brief. And so we’re truly grateful for the principle of leadership this group provides. And, thank you for those kind words. You know, for me, the most important decision I ever made in my life was when I was 18 years of age, freshman in college, having been raised in a church home, but walked away from faith. It was a rainy spring day down at a place called Asbury University at a Christian music festival. And it was as though I heard the words for the first time that “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever might believe in him might not perish, but have everlasting life.”

And the pastor on that stage between the music just invited young people gathered there to stand up and walk down. And that night I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior, and it changed my life forever. Amen. But I must tell you, from very early on, I’d had an interest in public life. The heroes of my youth growing up in the 60s were the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and John F. Kennedy. I actually would go on to start in politics as a Democrat. But when I heard the voice of the 40th president of the United States, his commitment to a strong national defense, to limited government traditional moral values, I joined the Reagan Revolution and never looked back. But I came to Christ when I was 18. I ran for office the first time when I was 29 years of age, believe it or not, about the age this young guy is on the front row here. I lost those first two campaigns, but also as I wrote in my autobiography, which is entitled So Help Me God, which is available on amazon.com.

I’m contractually obligated to say that, no, but I tried to be candid in my autobiography that while I gave my life to Christ when I was 18, I’m not sure that I gave my dreams to him until after I lost a couple of elections. I lost them hard. And in the aftermath of that, I looked at the harsh negative campaigns that I allowed myself to become involved in. And I started thinking about what my faith required of me. You know, you talk all the time, Brent, with great conviction. ERLC represents the idea that we can bring our faith into the public square and that being a winsome witness for Jesus Christ is just as important as the things we stand for. And I’d failed that early in my life. And so along the way in my early 30s, I thought the dream was gone. But I purposed in my heart to say that if it ever came around again, I’d aspire to carry myself in a way worthy of the gospel. And, and when the opportunity came around 10 years later to run for Congress again, we ran campaigns that hit hard on the issues. We always stand firm on that conservative agenda, but we always tried to treat others the way we would want to be treated. In my years in Congress when we first met Brent, and my years as governor of Indiana, and I hope my years as vice president of the United States, were emblematic of that. And, back in the 1990s, last thought is, I had a radio show. And, I was kind of Rush Limbaugh on decaf .

It wasn’t heard all over. It was just heard all over Indiana. It was about 18 little radio stations all across the Hoosier State. I would tell people I was big in Bedford, let’s be honest. But people would sometimes call the show and they would say, you know, “I’ve been listening to you for a little bit, and I’m trying to figure out where you’re coming from. You know, are you a conservative? Are you a libertarian?” I mean, they’d say, you know, what are you? And I finally came up with a line that I would end up using throughout my public life, which was, I said, “I’m a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican in that order.” And, every day of my public career, I’ve sought to be open about that, to make sure people knew where I was coming from and hopefully knew anything worthy that we ever were involved in, they knew who should get the glory. So I thank you for that encouragement, Brent. I really do.

BL: So, sir, you just recounted your path of leadership, member of Congress, governor, vice president. And we were just talking before—you have an amazing family. A beautiful family. And, I assume that the importance of family, not only to you personally, but your understanding that family is the bedrock unit of our society. How did you do all that and keep your family together and a priority. Give these folks a window into how you were able to do that successfully?

MP: Well, I married Karen Pence 39 years ago this weekend. So, I mean, honestly, other than my relationship with Jesus Christ, my relationship with my wife is the defining characteristic of my life. She dropped me this week in a heartbeat because our daughter Charlotte’s pregnant with her second, her husband is stationed in California. And so she’s out. She told a couple friends, she said, “I’m just going out for a couple of days.” And I said, “Yeah, Monday through Friday.” But we’ve been blessed. But it’s been because of decisions that we’ve made. And, I wanna say to everybody in this room, particularly all of you that serve as pastors in active ministry, I want you all to know how grateful I am for the role that you play in the lives of families and the communities that you serve.

I will always believe that the pulpits that you speak behind are of infinitely more value to the life of this nation than any podium that I’ve ever had the privilege to stand behind. I believe it with all my heart. So thank you for your service to the Lord and the role that you play in the life of the nation. But I do think it’s about family. You know, honestly, we were chatting before, when I first started showing up in Congress on TV a little bit. I mean, I would be on C-SPAN pretty regularly, literally watched by tens of Americans. But people would come up to you. There’s a flattering question they ask you, maybe it comes up in ministry, too. In Washington, D.C., people would come up and say, you know, “Where do you see yourself in five years?”

Everybody in Washington is supposed to have a plan. And I’d always answer it the same way. Brent, when they’d say, “Where do you see yourself in five years?” I’d say, “Home for dinner.” Because to be honest with you, I mean, I love the issues and the battles and the policy arena that the ERLC’s involved in. I’ve been involved with them all my public life. I love to work hard. It’s just built into my DNA, the grandson of an immigrant. But what I learned early on when our kids were very young was I had to make a decision to shut the day planner, turn off the computer, and go home and sit down at the table and take an interest in my kids’ lives, to make time for my wife. It’s one of the reasons why when I was in Congress, we actually moved our family to Washington, D.C., during the school year.

I wanted to be able to be home for dinner as much as I could. We did it when I was governor, and we sought to do it as often as we could as vice president. And I actually wrote a book with my daughter a year ago, and it’s a way better book than my first book because she’s a way better writer than me, but it’s entitled, “Go Home for Dinner: How Faith Makes a Family and Family Makes a Life.” And it was born of a question. I was humbled. I got the same question about three years ago from a friend who said to me, “you know, I’d like to read your autobiography. That’d be fun. I like politics. The book I really want to read is “How are you and Karen, how have you managed to live your life and have your family, you know, thriving and blessed?”

I hold the view that when you’re talking to young men and women that think about public service, you need to tell them it’s an honorable thing and that your family and your integrity can not only survive in politics, it can thrive, but you gotta make decisions. You gotta make decisions to put God’s priorities as your priorities. And that means saying no to things and saying yes to your family and saying yes to a balanced life. And so this little book is just a lot of little family vignettes about our lessons along the way. But it was born, ultimately, last thought, it was born of a sermon I heard in 1995. I recount this in the book. Pastor Charles Lake at Community Church of Greenwood here, wonderful pastor, a dear friend of this day. He got up and he preached on Genesis 18:19, a pretty obscure passage.

I didn’t know what it was about. It’s this scene where God is talking to himself about whether he is gonna tell Abraham something. And the verse that caught me, my life in that moment, literally was, “Well, of course I’ll tell him I’ve chosen him.” He’s talking about Abraham. And you stop there for a second and you think, well, what do you choose Abraham to do? Well, he chose to leave the land of Chaldeans, to go north, to go to the promised land, to have his faith credited as righteousness, all of that. No, that’s not what the verse says. It says, well, of course I’ll tell him because I’ve chosen him to see to the members of his own household, that they would do what is right. And just so that the Lord would fulfill his purpose for him. 1995. Brent, I can honestly tell you that that was a moment, having been through those early tough campaigns where I’d fallen short to live out my own standards in the public square, and my little family had come along.

We just landed on that. And I realized in my heart of hearts that God’s calling in my life was not something outside myself. It was not to be somebody in the world. It was to be somebody for my family, to love my wife, to train my children, and to make them my priority. And then there was a promise with that, God says, “I’ll fulfill my purpose for you.” And so, in these challenging times in which we live, if I have one word to each one of you, when you go back to those pulpits and you go back to those churches, particularly those of you in full-time ministry, just encourage people to go home for dinner. I mean, we save the family, we’ll save America.

BL: Well, that serves as a really good segue to kind of enter into discussion about policy and the political arena. Our organization, your organization, people in this room, have expressed many differences with things that this White House has done: things that this White House has put out in terms of regulations. Folks may not be familiar here, but over the last year, the ERLC filed a record number of public comments opposing the 19 different (for our ministry, at least) areas where the Biden administration has made significant rule changes through its executive authority. Typically, it’s two or three a year when this gentleman was vice president. Those two or three were often very supportive of the changes that were done through executive action. So, a question to you: I assume you probably would agree with most, if not all of those, filings that we did. Where should this nation be headed right now?

MP: I think we need to stop, turn around, and go the other direction: back to freedom and prosperity and the traditional values that have always made this country great; respect for religious liberty. And I will tell you the greatest honor of my life was to be your vice president and be a part of the administration that appointed three of the justices that sent Roe v. Wade to the ash heap of history. We have an extraordinary opportunity. So, I’ve made it clear, and you can be delicate, but I’d never vote for Joe Biden. You said there’s most things we disagree with. I can’t think of a thing he’s done that I agree with. And I’ve known Joe Biden for a long time, and there’s a big debate over the President’s condition and ability to do the job. Let me just assure you, Joe Biden has always been that wrong. I mean, that’s not new. That’s not new. I mean, with a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, only Joe Biden could have ordered that disgraceful withdrawal from Afghanistan that’s emboldened the enemies of freedom around the world and their aggressive liberal agenda. I mean, literally intruding on religious freedom, advocating a radical abortion agenda at home and abroad, and all of the intrusions on freedom that the ERLC does such a great job of pushing back on. But I do think this is a moment where we also, the influential men and women in this room, need to know there’s also a very healthy debate within my party about whether we’re gonna stay on the course of a strong national defense of American leadership in the world, of limited government and balanced budgets, of traditional moral values, of the right to life, and affirmation of religious liberty and marriage, or whether we’re gonna start to move in another direction. 

The foundation I created in Washington three years ago, Advancing American Freedom, we think our calling right now is to be a voice for the traditional conservative agenda. It was Ronald Reagan’s values that drew me to the Republican party, and I think not only are they a pathway toward political success, but I think by hewing to our roots of those conservative values and holding our candidates at every level to that agenda, it’s a pathway toward a free, more prosperous, and stronger America in the 21st century. 

BL: So, let’s situate on that point that you made right there. You gave some remarks in an address not too long ago where you said this: “A growing faction would substitute our faith in limited government and traditional values with an agenda stitched together by little else than personal grievances and performative outrage.” Where is that faction, and why is that faction so troubling to you?

MP: Because I really believe that the ideals the Republican Party has become the champion of since that historic election in 1980 has resulted in the longest peacetime expansion. Literally, it was the agenda that the Trump-Pence administration governed on. I honestly believe that in this day and age of the internet and clickbait that there are voices, not just in our party but around our party, influential voices in the media that would have us move away from that. I mean, I would tell you when we ran for Congress in 2000, which I think I mentioned to you, I lost those first two races, right? I have really close friends that remind me of that all the time: “Yeah, Mike, remember you lost twice.”

But when we ran, I’ll be honest with you, it was really tough for us. Karen and I had built our dream home, you know. I was doing radio, a little bit of TV, I had a good job and little kids. And when people came to us and said they wanted us to run for Congress again, I was like a cat going to a pool party. I did that back when I was young and rambunctious. But, you know, I have a family now. My father had passed away, but I could almost hear my dad in my mind saying, “Michael, you got responsibilities, you know?” But when we sat our little kids down and we told ’em why we sold the dream house, moved back to our hometown, and risked everything: we looked at our kids and we said “for the babies.” And they still remember it.

We said, “we’re doing it for the babies.” And I’m proud that during my years in Congress, I authored the first bill on Capitol Hill to defund Planned Parenthood. And we passed it out of the house. Here in Indiana, we expanded adoption and we passed strong protections for the right to life. It’s a strong pro-life state. I was proud to lead it as governor. But, you can imagine the privilege I felt when, as your vice president, I got to cast the tie-breaking vote on the floor of the Senate to allow states to defund Planned Parenthood once and for all. I mean, it was incredible.

So, I honestly think we haven’t come to the end of the debate over life; we’ve come to the end of the beginning. And I would say this to you, this is not a political statement, but I would say to you that I think the destiny of this nation is inextricably linked to whether we restore the sanctity of life to the center of American law. I believe it with all my heart. Now, it may take us as long to restore the sanctity of life to the center of American law in every state in this country as it took us to overturn Roe vs. Wade. But we can’t rest. We can’t relent. Because the cause of life is not just our cause: it’s His cause. I’ve quoted this at March for Life over the years that there’s almost a pro-life memorial in Washington DC – accidentally. In the Jefferson Memorial on the wall, there’s a quote from President Jefferson who said “the God who gave us life gave us liberty. And I tremble for my nation when I think that God is just, and his justice will not sleep forever.”

Men and women, I’ll just tell you when we talk about the policy arena and debates within our own party, those who would say that the cause of abortion is now a state’s only issue: that is not what the Supreme Court decided in the Dobbs decision, as the ERLC knows, having championed that cause so much over the years. The Supreme Court returned the question of abortion, rightly, to the states and the American people. And, I’m quick to remind people, the American people elect presidents, they elect senators, they elect congressmen, governors, and State House representatives. And I think it is incumbent on us to call on men and women at every level of public life to advance the sanctity of life in the law of the land – federal, state, and local. But as you know, there are voices in our party that wanna say it’s just off to the states. But if you can go back about 150 years ago, there was an effort to marginalize another issue that had to do with the personhood of people in this country. And for 20 years, resolution of that was delayed until it would be tragically resolved because they marginalized it to the states, instead of doing what William Wilberforce did in the United Kingdom in the 1820s, where he said, as we should have said at the time, and I would tell you, the question of abortion is not a “state” issue, it’s a moral issue. And we need to stand for life at every level in this country. And I will, so help me, God.

BL: So, in taking such a correct and convictional stand, you come in for criticism by some for doing what’s right. You get criticized: the online platforms, social media, they seem to light up every time Mike Pence says something convictional. So let’s deal with the online world first before we get into the real world. How do you deal with that online criticism? You get cheered and jeered, lauded and lampooned. How do you keep yourself centered in the midst of all that?

MP: I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. You know, I’m not immune to feeling frustrated from time to time. And I mean, when I was your vice president, I’ll never forget the day I opened up the newspaper in Washington DC and found that I was actually being criticized because my wife and I had decided 20 years earlier, when we were first elected to office, that I would not dine alone with a woman that was not my wife. I’ll never forget the day I walked into the Oval Office that morning. You know, when you’re the vice president, you don’t wanna be the story.

I walked into the Oval Office, and I had, for four years, a very good relationship with President Trump, I wanna assure you that. I’m incredibly proud of the record of our administration, and proud of the team that we had around us and what we accomplished with a lot of help from ERLC. But I’ll never forget: I walked into the Oval Office that morning, or a group of people around the Resolute Desk, and the president looked up at me. I didn’t know how his reaction would be to this news story that was breaking everywhere. And I remember he said “Mike, come on in.” He goes “can you all believe it? After everything they’ve said about me, they’re attacking Mike Pence for being faithful to his wife.”

I relaxed at that point. You really have to take it in stride. You have to understand as believers in the public square that we’re gonna take stands. Sometimes it gets called the Mike Pence rule. It wasn’t the Mike Pence rule: it was the Billy Graham rule. That’s where I got it. When we got busy in public life, Karen and I sat down and just made some decisions about putting our marriage and our family first, and that was one of them. But I will tell you, it was interesting that over the months that followed, and maybe it was in the aftermath of the #MeToo movement, that quieted down on that topic. And the great blessing for me is not the critics, and maybe this is true for pastors in the room, too, you know: for every one person that has got a problem with what you said, it seems my experience traveling the country was that there seemed to be legions of people who quietly are grateful for the stand that you take. And some of the greatest blessings I’ve had traveling around the country from time to time are when young people will come up to Karen and me and just say they were encouraged by us and by the way we try to live out our faith. So that’s how we deal with it. 

BL: So sometimes when you take a stand, whether it is moral clarity or constitutional clarity, those angry voices online spill out into real life. And I would submit, maybe you wouldn’t characterize it like this, that there was an instance where you were doing your duty and your life was in jeopardy: on January 6th, when some very angry individuals stormed a building – an institution that’s very important to both you and me in our lives. And I’m just curious, now that we have some distance from that date, your thoughts, and have you heard from people, just like you answered in that last question, who have affirmed you? Because let me do that right now. Thank you for standing up and doing the right thing that you were duty bound to do on January 6th.

MP: Brent, thank you. I’m deeply humbled by that affirmation and by your gracious words. You know, I’ll always believe by God’s grace on that tragic day that we did our duty. It was January 20th, 2017. I put my left hand on Ronald Reagan’s Bible, and I raised my right hand, and I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, but it ended with a prayer: “so help me God.” And when I first heard in early December, from the rumors online, that somehow the Vice President would have the unilateral authority to decide what electoral college votes to count and which to not, to reject some or send some back to the States, it just, as a student of American history and of the Constitution, made no sense to me from the first thought. I mean, there’s almost no idea more un-American than the idea that any one person could choose the American president. Presidency belongs to the American people and the American people alone. And as we approached that day, we made our position clear. And I, to be candid with you, had hoped, while the President and I discussed it, and the days in and around Christmas and the lead up to that fateful day, I’d always hoped that he would come around on it.

I wanna say very honestly that I’d grown accustomed to a leadership style that demanded everything and then usually took less. It was just a leadership style. It was very effective in dealing with countries around the world, a lot of times dealing with Congress. Well, I shared the concerns that millions had about irregularities in the election. I had hoped that when, when all was said and done, he would recognize that those that were telling him I had some authority to overturn the election were wrong. But it was not to be. But going into that day, you know, we prayed all the way through it. We had decided that we were gonna keep our oath. The Bible says in Psalm 15, “he keeps his oath even when it hurts.”

I know something about that. You remember I was on the ballot. But doing that, doing our work that day, I must tell you throughout all of it, through the riot that happened, and I was determined to stay at my post, which we did at the Capitol, and finish the work that day. There has been much reported about it over the last three years, and maybe more will be written about it in the years ahead, but I will tell you that I’ve often told our children that the safest place in the world is to be in the center of God’s will. And for my wife and I and my daughter, we were at the capitol that day with devoted staff and other public officials. I felt at peace. I knew we were where we were supposed to be, doing what we were supposed to be doing. And that was God’s grace. 

And in the months and years that have followed, we’ve endured some criticism. My old running mate and I still have a very strong difference on my duties that day, and I don’t know that that’ll ever change. But traveling around the country, to answer your question, Brent, I’ve been deeply moved. You know, I arrived at a small airport last year in Iowa, and I walked in with two campaign people with me, and somebody looked at me and said, “I thought you rolled deeper than this.” I don’t roll deep anymore. 

BL: You drove yourself here today, by yourself! You just came on over!

MP: So, people spot the white hair and they say, “you know how much you look like Mike Pence?” And I tell people, “I get that every day.” But honestly, I would say to you, while there are those, and I have great compassion on people that have been misled on this, I have great compassion on people that have been told something that didn’t sell. And I’ll leave the judgment to history and trust the American people, but from my personal experience, Brent, traveling around the country, how many times people from every walk of life have come up to me and said what you said and responded the way the people in this room did. And I’m grateful for that, and I always answer it the same way whenever people thank me for what we did: I say “God’s grace.” And it was God’s grace that saw us through that day. So thank you again.

BL: Well, as we start to conclude here, let’s end on a hopeful note, maybe. 

MP: I’m very optimistic! 

BL: No, you are! Absolutely.

MP: Well, I’ll tell you why. Look, in all my years in public service, and I don’t know why you don’t have more gray hair, ’cause I knew this guy on Capitol Hill in 2006. And what a blessing to see you in this role – it really is, Brent. But I’m gonna be honest with you, in my 20 years in public service – as a governor, a vice president, and member of Congress – my opinion of our government has, you know, not really gone up very much. And sometimes it’s gone down, but my opinion of the American people has gone up every single day since that first election, and traveling around this country when you’re in the roles that I’ve been in, when you’re a governor and the tornadoes hit Southern Indiana, and you rush down to the communities to make sure that your first responders have the resources they need to be responding, the only thing you can’t find in those neighborhoods is a parking spot.

‘Cause people come from everywhere. They pour outta your churches. They load up the back of a pickup truck or a minivan with a cooler full of water and sandwiches, and they drive to communities that are hit hard by hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and they just pull into the driveway of people, whom they’ve never met before and will never see again, and are the hands and feet of Christ. And I want to tell you,I’ve had the privilege of seeing the way the American people come alongside one another in the hardest of times. 

You know, I made it through this whole conversation without mentioning our kids, which is big for me: my son’s a captain in the Marine Corps, and one of my unworthy son-in-laws a lieutenant in the Navy. And, I will tell you from traveling, if you wanna be inspired about America, you wanna be confident, just go visit a military base anywhere in this country. I mean, the men and women in our armed forces today are the finest generation, and the most sacrificial, dedicated Americans I’ve ever had the privilege of being around. And so, I’ve said this many times, but I’m gonna tell you my conviction is that the American people are the most freedom-loving, faith-filled, generous, caring, decent people the world has ever known. We just gotta have a government as good as our people again. And I think we get that, not by people like me sounding off about it, per se. Honestly, I think we get it when men and women of faith in America will encourage people to turn your hearts toward home. And if your calling is leadership, to not shy away from public life, and when they go into public life, do different than I did in those early years and go carry your faith in: in the way you stand and in what you stand for. Because I truly do believe if we will just continue to produce leadership in this country that reflects the character, the decency, the faith, and the idealism of the American people, our best days are ahead. I know it in my heart.

BL: So last year we took a survey of about 15,000 messengers that came to New Orleans, and just wanted to know “what are the things that your congregations are talking to you about as a pastor/associate pastor/minister?” The number two thing was the upcoming election. And I’m sure if we were doing a survey this year, it would now be the number one thing. It’s on everyone’s mind. This fall, we have an election that 70% of Americans, according to polls, did not want a rematch of 2020. Both nominees have historically high unfavorable ratings. The right track/wrong track number has been underwater now for years as it relates to the direction our country is in. We seem to have dug ourselves into a hole. How do we get out of this and get on a better trajectory?

MP: Well, I honestly think prayer. You know, if there ever was a time to go back to that pulpit and tell your folks to pray for America, it’d be now. I’ve been down to that border a bunch. I mean, it’s the worst crisis on the southern border of the United States in the history of this country. And it’s not gonna get better anytime soon. Families are struggling. 20% inflation since this administration took office and launched a gusher of spending. We have war raging in Eastern Europe. We have people in the streets of New York yesterday waving flags and saying “remember October 7th.” Lemme tell you, if the world knows nothing else, the world should know this: America stands with Israel. 

But I would just encourage you to pray. And the other piece is one of the reasons I love ERLC, because as you pray, and it’s not a trivial statement: the effective and fervent prayer of a righteous man avail much. This is the real stuff of faith, and it’s been what sustained this country throughout our history. 

The second thing is to stand. I said before: “Joe Biden? No,” but making sure that the leadership of our party at every level stays on the track of what will result in a free or more prosperous America that cherishes life and family; there’s some work to do there. And never underestimate the credibility and strength that leaders of faith in communities have. You have a unique voice and ability – not to be political, per se, although you have every right in the first amendment to speak your mind – but it’s to speak to people about what is true and right for America. And the last thing I would just say, and this is something that I felt to share with you, I don’t hear the word repent a lot.

And I’ve been examining my own heart of late, as you know. I read a great essay, it was about a week ago, you can probably find it, or maybe I’ll send it to you and you can send it around to folks, but a pastor talked about the role of repentance and how in the Bible when leaders called people to repentance, they didn’t say “you need to repent,” they said “we need to repent.” And I think as we see our culture sliding away from traditional values, and the gender ideology that’s taken hold and confused and beset our kids in schools around the country, and the trampling on the right to life, if I had one word for the pastors in this room, it’s encourage people to reflect on what it is to repent, and to call our countrymen to repentance. It’s what Lincoln did. It’s what Washington did. It’s what every great leader in the history of this country has done.

I really do believe we’re living in a time where, as I said very early on in this conversation, we need to stop and turn around and go the other way. And, I think the pastors in the room will correct me later, I think that’s what repentance kind of means, literally. And so, calling our neighbors and friends, not just the people out there that disagree with us openly and that don’t embrace our faith in Jesus Christ, but I’m talking about including people that do. And let’s all examine our hearts and see how it is that we can, in our own lives, have the kind of change of heart that will inspire the nation. So, I would say pray, stand, turn, and we’ll bring this country back. So help us, God.

Conclusion 

Vice President’s Pence’s example of service shows Christians that we can and should bring our faith into the public square. And we can do so in a way that doesn’t cause us to compromise our biblical convictions. As we get closer and closer to the November 2024 presidential election, let’s aim to put Christ above all by honoring him in how we think about politics, love those we interact with, and work toward making our country a place of flourishing. 

Thanks for listening to the ERLC Podcast. Join us next time as we begin a new series about mental health and the church.