Florida Baptists on life and other cultural challenges

Today on the ERLC Podcast we’re hearing from Dr. Stephen Rummage share how Florida Baptists are encountering issues related to life and other cultural challenges. Dr. Rummage is the Executive Director-Treasurer of the Florida Baptist Convention. Our Baptist State conventions are vital in equipping and supporting Southern Baptist churches in their gospel mission. 

On today’s episode, ERLC interim president Dr. Gary Hollingsworth talks to Dr. Rummage about the unique challenges churches in Florida are facing and how the ERLC can continue to serve them as they take the gospel to their communities. 

Episode Transcript: Florida Baptists on life and other cultural challenges

Narration:

Welcome to the ERLC podcast, where our goal is to help you think biblically about today’s cultural issues. I’m Lindsay Nicolet, and today we’re talking with Dr. Stephen Rummage of the Florida Baptist Convention. Our Baptist State conventions are vital in equipping and supporting Southern Baptist churches in their gospel mission. 

On today’s episode, ERLC interim president Dr. Gary Hollingsworth talks to Dr. Rummage about the unique challenges churches in Florida are facing and how the ERLC can continue to serve them as they take the gospel to their communities. Dr. Rummage serves as the executive director-treasurer of the Florida Baptist Convention and has pastored churches in Florida, Oklahoma, North Carolina, and Louisiana. He has also served on the faculties of Southeastern, New Orleans, and Midwestern Baptist Theological seminaries, authored several books and founded a daily nationwide broadcast ministry that aired from 2010 to 2024. 

Now let’s listen to Dr. Hollingsworth’s conversation with Dr. Rummage.

Dr. Gary Hollingsworth:

As you think about it here in Florida, what are some of the challenges that you’re aware of that your pastors and churches are facing regarding issues of life, religious liberty, marriage and family, and certainly human dignity. What’s going on in Florida? What’s on your heart?

Dr. Stephen Rummage:

Well, I’ll tell you, I was somewhat surprised when I came into this role a little over a year ago that the state of Florida was in the midst of a real battle that I was surprised that we were in the midst of. And that is, there was a statewide referendum that if it had passed, would’ve basically legalized a lot of abortions in the state of Florida. So I came in and we were in the midst of that, and we had the vote in November. Thankfully, the measure failed, but I’ll tell you, it did not fail as strongly as we would’ve liked to have seen it fail. So the pro-choice forces, the abortion forces, were working really hard and they had slipped that in and it nearly passed. In fact, if there hadn’t been such a high threshold for what it had to receive to pass, it would’ve passed.

Dr. Stephen Rummage:

So that was just a wake up call for me to remember that with the overturn of Roe v. Wade by the Supreme Court does not end the battle for the sanctity of human life. Instead, it sort of changes where the battle lines are and where the battlefield is. It moves it to the states and there are forces that are working to undermine the sanctity of human life. So that’s one area that we continue to face in the state of Florida. I’m thankful that we were able to keep that measure from passing, but I’m praying that we’ll be able to not have to face something like that or be able to perhaps give a stronger answer to keep that from happening in the days to come. That’s one thing I would say. So sanctity of human life continues to be a significant issue that we’re facing in Florida. I would also say that we are just seeing multiple ways that religious liberty is being challenged for our churches in the state. And that especially has to do with some zoning ordinances in different cities and different towns that can keep churches from being able to operate or to purchase property. And so those are real issues that we’re facing all over our state.

Dr. Gary Hollingsworth:

Well, you know, Dr. Rummage, there’s an old saying I’m sure you’ve heard, that “all politics are local.” And so when you think about religious liberty issues, I’m just curious, are there any real-life stories that come to mind when you think about the religious liberty issues that might be facing some churches and pastors in Florida?

Dr. Stephen Rummage:

Well, we really are seeing some things that are affecting our churches. And as you said, it’s happening at the local and city level, in both large cities and in sometimes small towns, and really in different places in our state. So for example, in South Florida, it is very, very hard for churches to be able to purchase new properties in order to meet. A lot of times they run into zoning restrictions that keep them from being able to purchase property. I can think of one church that is a growing church that needs a new facility and they want to stay in the same community, the same municipality, that they’ve been in for over 50 years, but they need a new facility and they keep running into issues with the municipality being unwilling to change the zoning of different properties so that they can then have a church there.

Dr. Stephen Rummage:

The pastor of the church told me that he was looking at properties with a realtor, and the realtor told him, “Reverend, it would be easier for you to purchase property for a gentleman’s club than it would be for you to purchase property to have a church in this municipality.” And they’re running into things that, in this case, where there are vacant properties that had been vacant for a long time and the church would be interested in them, but the municipality would rather just leave that property vacant and wait rather than lose that tax money, and so that’s an issue. In the northern part of our state, I can think of a church that is running into a problem–it’s a smaller town–but they’re running into a problem. Years ago, this town had an ordinance and still has an ordinance. They established an ordinance that said a liquor store or a bar could not open within so many feet of a church, just to protect the church. The municipality is then turning that law around and saying a church cannot open or expand its property within so many feet of a bar or a liquor store. So in both of those cases, certainly I would say it’s religious discrimination that’s hurting churches and keeping churches from being able to operate and extend their ministries. So we see those kinds of things in different forms all across our state. It’s very, very hard for churches to secure properties in cities and even in some of our smaller towns. So those are some religious liberty issues that we’re facing in Florida.

Dr. Gary Hollingsworth:

It’s good to hear those very real, on-the-ground examples and sometimes we can talk about religious liberty in generic terms and we would all think over it for religious liberty. It’s part of who we are as our heritage, but thank you for sharing those. 

Let me switch gears if I can for just a moment. We know obviously there are always challenges in church leadership, whether you’re a pastor or whether you’re working with a state convention or national entity. 

But on the flip side of that, we’d love to hear just some encouraging things that you’re excited about for what’s going on there in Florida. So can you share some of those stories as well?

Dr. Stephen Rummage:

Absolutely. And you know, one of the exciting things about being in Florida is every area of our state is growing to some extent. Some are growing exponentially, but every area is growing to some extent. And the Lord is bringing all kinds of people from all across the country and even all over the world to Florida. There are great opportunities for the gospel and we’re seeing God do great and mighty things. I’m thinking about in one of our ministry contexts in the Tampa Bay area, there’s a new church that was started just a few years ago in a community inside the city that’s designed to be a walkable community with all your shopping and living and everything in that city core. And the pastor of the church started the church with a vision for reaching the people who are there in those apartment complexes and those condo complexes.

Dr. Stephen Rummage:

And the Lord is using that church, a new church, to reach people who otherwise would not have been reached. I saw a picture he posted not too long ago. There were about nine people who were being baptized and eight of them were within walking distance of that church. And so we’re just seeing God do great and mighty things like that all over our state. 

Florida is probably as diverse, if not more diverse, than any other state where Southern Baptist work is strong. Our Florida Baptist Convention, however you want to slice it up is about as diverse as you can be. I mean, we have 350 Haitian churches, we’ve got 350 Hispanic churches, we’ve got about 300 African American churches, we’ve got about 60 plus Asian churches. We’re as diverse as you can imagine, among our 3000 churches. Yet, there is an absolute singularity, a purpose and mission that holds us together. Wherever I go in our state, I see a huge commitment to reaching lost people with the gospel and doing everything we can to evangelize, to share Jesus, and to see people follow Jesus as his disciples.

Dr. Gary Hollingsworth:

Well that is so exciting to hear. That’s actually a great segue. I was gonna ask another question, but you may have just answered it unless you have another anecdotal story, which we’d love to hear. 

How are your churches coming together to work cooperatively? You know, that’s a huge part of who we are as Southern Baptists. And as imperfect as we are, as a family, like any other family, I think it’s the genius of who we’ve been over the years. So just anything come to mind when you think about working together in cooperation?

Dr. Stephen Rummage:

I can tell you about two things that have been really encouraging to me. One, and we see this in different pockets across our state. Pastors who are getting together on usually a monthly basis for peer-to-peer learning pastoral cohorts. And they’re coming together. They may spend a couple hours a month just hearing from one another about some ministry issues. Sometimes they bring in an outside speaker to address something and then they sit at tables just to share their story, sometimes to share their struggle, but to help find out what they can do to be more effective in serving their churches and reaching people with the gospel of Jesus Christ. And I’m seeing that in pockets all across our state that’s really encouraging, where churches are coming together. Something else we’re seeing where churches are working together to do something they could not do separately is happening on our campuses at our Baptist Collegiate Ministries.

Dr. Stephen Rummage:

We have really thriving BCMs at every major university across our state. And those BCMs are designed to bring churches together in those areas, in those collegiate areas to help encourage students to reach the campuses for Christ, and then to mobilize students for ministry. At UF this past year, we saw many of our students go on summer mission journeys. And what encouraged me was that these were not just one-week trips, as valuable as those are. These were six-week journeys where students were going, sharing the gospel, and churches were getting together to help encourage and send. I really believe that when anybody, but when young people especially, have the opportunity to share the gospel in settings where they can share Christ many times and then see harvest, that that awakens in them a heart for evangelism and mission that can change their lives for the rest of their lives. Our BCMs are really part of doing that all across our state. And that’s a place where churches are coming together and making that happen.

Dr. Gary Hollingsworth:

That is so incredibly encouraging to hear. And let me ask, not to be totally selfish here about the ERLC. I really do want to know, are there any practical ways that the ERLC and our team can come alongside your convention to support and equip pastors in the work? We hear the need, but we want to know how we can help fill that need. So, anything come to mind? 

Dr. Stephen Rummage:

Well, I think one of the things that is really helpful is when the ERLC is able to provide information and research that pastors may not have been able to find out on their own things, their own, the hearts and minds of our churches related to all kinds of things, whether it’s sanctity of human life, whether it’s religious liberty issues, whether it’s cultural issues and how to address them. All of those things are places where the specialization of the ERLC can help churches and pastors to know what the information is and then to have an idea of how to address those things in their own local ministries. And so that information component is really an important ministry that I think the ERLC is able to provide. And then certainly where Southern Baptists have spoken about these issues, whether it’s through resolutions or whether it’s through our confession of faith in the Baptist Faith & Message, but where we have spoken to things, I think it’s very helpful to have an organization like the ERLC that has been speaking for us based on what we have already said as a convention. I appreciate that you’re able to go into places where we might not have the access to go or perhaps the time or attention to be able to devote to going and to stand on our behalf and to say, here’s what Southern Baptists have said, and then to advocate for us in that regard.

Dr. Gary Hollingsworth:

That is great. And that also is just an affirmation because my pledge, even during this interim period, is to stay tenaciously focused on doing just that. And that will be so helpful, not just to me, but certainly to all of our team. I’m just getting to know our team, but we have a wonderful team, very gifted and bright folks who have a deep heart for the gospel and getting the gospel to the nations and speaking into these areas. 

How can our listeners, all those around the SBC, but me specifically and our team, how can we pray for you specifically as a leader and your churches? I want to close our time together in prayer, so is there anything on your heart where we can pray for you?

Dr. Stephen Rummage:

Well, I appreciate you asking that, and I think as I pray for our pastors and churches all across our state and, indeed, beyond Florida, as I pray for Southern Baptist pastors and churches across the country, I pray that God would give us wisdom to be able to bring the gospel without compromise to the culture that God has placed us in. We understand that God has placed us in this moment right now to share the hope of the gospel in this moment, right now in this place. And I really believe that this generation of churches, this generation of pastors, and this generation of believers is responsible to engage this generation of lost people with the gospel. My prayer is that God would give us wisdom, discernment, and courage to continue to engage our culture without compromise with the Word of God.

Dr. Gary Hollingsworth:

Well, brother, if you would allow me the privilege, I’d love to just offer that prayer and would ask all who might also be watching this later on to join with us, and let’s find our way forward. Before we stand to our feet, let’s first fall to our knees. I believe that’s the answer for all of the ills of our country. So let me just lead us in prayer. 

Our Father, we come before you as a great and mighty and awesome and sovereign God. And Father, we thank you for leaders like Dr. Rummage and for the incredible work that is being done there in Florida Baptist Convention and through him and his team. And I know that their heart is to help every single church. Lord, as children, we sang that song, “Red and Yellow, Black and White, we’re all precious in his sight.” And what a beautiful expression that he has reminded us that they have that diversity that they’re in in Florida, but that’s true all across our country.

Dr. Gary Hollingsworth:

So Father, for his specific prayer for wisdom and for courage, and that we would do so uncompromisingly upon the conviction of Scripture and staying tenaciously focused on sharing the good news of the hope of the gospel of Jesus. We pray, Father, that you would answer that prayer in his life, our lives, and Father, really in the life of our larger Southern Baptist Convention family. Lord, would you even use us this day as we have opportunity to speak a good word of the gospel and tell somebody about Jesus today? And we offer this prayer to you. In the name of Jesus we pray, amen.

Narration:

Barriers to religious liberty and challenges to the pro-life movement are just some of the obstacles facing Florida Baptist pastors today. Yet even in the midst of opposition, Dr. Rummage is clear that God is at work. Churches across Florida are partnering together to see the gospel advanced and diverse communities on college campuses and throughout all areas of the state. As Florida grows, so does the opportunity for gospel impact. The same is true for all the churches within the Southern Baptist Convention at the ERLC. It’s our prayer that we can come alongside you in ways that help you and your church testify to the goodness of God’s design and the wisdom of walking according to his Word.

Narration:

Thanks for listening to this episode of the ERLC podcast. Join us next time as we hear from the Georgia Baptist Mission Board.