ERLC hosts pastors in Washington, D.C.

Over the past few months, the ERLC has actively called on Congress and the administration to take decisive action to defund Planned Parenthood, the nation’s largest abortion provider responsible for nearly 400,000 abortions annually. 

Welcome to The ERLC Podcast where our goal is to help you think biblically about today’s cultural issues. Today, we’re featuring highlights from a recent Pastor Advocacy Trip the ERLC hosted in Washington, D.C.

In March, the ERLC hosted its first pastor advocacy trip where ERLC staff and Southern Baptist pastors hand-delivered 10,000 signatures for the ERLC’s campaign to defund Planned Parenthood to Senator Lankford’s and Senate Majority Leader John Thune’s offices. 

The group also met with Speaker Mike Johnson, Sens. Ted Cruz and James Lankford, and others, giving them on-the-ground experience with life in D.C. and a better understanding of how the work that the ERLC does matters to the mission of our churches. 

The biggest thing I walked away with is to have a presence in Washington, you’ve got to show up, you’ve got to be there on the ground and you gotta build relationships. And so I did, I gained such an appreciation of just the importance of showing up and the ERLC is there building those relationships. It’s incredibly vital.

Ben Bolin, pastor Travis Avenue Baptist Church, Fort Worth, TX

Today, you’ll hear from Brent Leatherwood, president of the ERLC, as he shares more about how pastors are helping to amplify the voice of Southern Baptists to elected officials on issues concerning the protection and dignity of preborn lives.  You’ll also hear from Daniel Darling, ERLC church engagement strategist and research fellow, and Ben Bolin, pastor of Travis Avenue Baptist Church in Ft. Worth, Texas. Ben was on the trip and has served in Christian ministry for 20 years.

Episode Transcript: ERLC hosts pastors in Washington, D.C.

Dan Darling:

Well, welcome back here to the ERLC podcast. I’m Dan Darling here, and I’m here with the president of the ERLC, my good friend Brent Leatherwood. We wanted to have a conversation about a recent trip we took to Washington DC. You’re in DC all the time. You’re there talking to legislators and people on the hill, obviously, but we decided to take some pastors, most of them from Texas, but several from other states, from Louisiana and Georgia and Tennessee. For you, what was the inspiration and the idea to do this? What was the purpose for you in taking pastors to the nation’s capitol?

Brent Leatherwood:

Well, it falls along two fronts. One, as many folks will be aware, it is a major priority for us right now. As a matter of fact, it’s our top legislative priority to urge Congress to finally take the steps that they need to, to defund Planned Parenthood. And that is happening because of the reconciliation process that has been initiated in Congress right now, where both the House and the Senate agree on some top line numbers to find savings in our national budget. And we’re proposing <laugh> that one of those savings at a minimum should be the elimination of funding for Planned Parenthood. In any given year, Planned Parenthood receives at least, at least, so some years it’s more, but at least $700 million from American taxpayers. And in doing so, obviously, it is exterminating life, but it is violating the consciences of millions of pro-life Americans. This is obviously not something that we need to be supporting as a nation, and it’s something that must be ended.

And for too long now, members of the Republican Party have made commitments and made pledges to do this. Well, we’re asking them to follow through on those pledges. Republicans control the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives, and this is the time to act. We cannot stand by and let lives be lost, let mothers fall prey to the predatory abortion industry because of some of these procedural negotiations. This needs to be made a priority, and we’re thankful that there are champions for this in Congress that want to do this. So we wanted the pastors to come and amplify our voice at the ERLC in, in front of these elected officials, and then at the same time wanted them to just gain further insight about the day-to-day work of the ERLC. It is very routine for us to have meetings with members of Congress for us to have meetings with the White House and to also be a part of coalition meetings. And so they got to see all three of those in the 48 hours where we hosted them at our office in Washington DC. And so it kind of had a dual purpose, one strategically to be a part of this defund Planned Parenthood effort. And then for the other part of it, it was just to let them have further insight into just what we do here at the Ethics of Religious Liberty Commission.

Dan Darling:

One of the things that I was really impressed with going there, I mean, I’m in DC not nearly as much as you are, but I’m there frequently. And you know, this is the midst of a really busy legislative session. And yet I was really impressed that we were able to get meetings with, first of all, the Speaker of the house who’s trying to pass a reconciliation budget and with a, you know, slim majority. He took time, you know, as a Southern Baptist, he’s a former ERLC trustee. He took time to meet with us. We got to go on his private speaker balcony, which, you know, is very rare to be able to go into his, you know, private chapel. We prayed over him, but the fact that he saw it as important to meet with pastors and also Senator Cruz took time, Senator Langford and many others. So it does really speak to the relationships we have there on the Hill. Obviously you had to be gratified that we were able to get those meetings given the busyness of the session, right?

Brent Leatherwood:

Absolutely. And particularly the speaker, I mean, just before us earlier in the day, he was meeting with majority Leader Thune because the two of them were trying to hammer out, along with the budget chairs, trying to hammer out the top line numbers that again, both chambers have to agree to. And then right after us, as a matter of fact, he slotted us in right before a very important meeting he was having with majority leader Steve Scalise. So obviously I was very thankful that he was able to make some time for us, but I sensed when he knew that we had a good collection of Southern Baptist pastors that he might try and give us a few minutes. And honestly, he was far more generous with his time than I expected. So I was really grateful for that. And then the other meetings, you know, each of the meetings that we had for this trip were with fellow Southern Baptists.

And I think that that kinship was important. You know, a lot of members when you meet with them, they wanna know, okay, who’s from my home state, who’s from my home district? That wasn’t the case for all of these meetings. So sometimes we didn’t have somebody in the room who was from this member state, and yet they still wanted to meet with us because of that unique Southern Baptist connection. And because they know that the voice of the SBC matters on these issues. And look, we didn’t just talk about life. I mean, obviously that was the main objective for this, but we also talked about religious liberty, we talked about immigration reform, we talked about the challenges presented by technology right now, and those officials were very interested in what our pastors had to say on those issues.

Dan Darling:

Yeah, I think of our meetings with Senator Cruz, who I don’t know if people know, he grew up at Second Baptist Church in Houston. He now goes to First Baptist. He talked a lot about our Baptist upbringing and you know, I thought he gave us a lot of time and we had some extensive conversations with him about issues. He was asked by several pastors different questions. And same with Senator Langford, took a lot of questions. And you know, I think maybe people don’t realize that, you know, these politicians are, we see them on the news, we see their pictures, but they’re actual people. And, you know, many times our fellow brothers in Christ, fellow sisters in Christ are really in a hard position. So in some ways it was encouraging for them to see the pastors come to their place of work, if you will. 

Brent Leatherwood:

<affirmative>. I think, again, that speaks to just the cooperative nature and the comradery of just being in the room with fellow Southern Baptists. Those members were just trying to shoot straight with our pastors, help them understand just some of the realities on Capitol Hill. Some of the challenges, I mean, particularly Speaker Johnson was sharing some of that with us. And so we need to not flatten these members of Congress because we do see them, you know, on screen. They’re dealing with all sorts of headaches and victories at work and challenges and sweet moments at home. And so I think in some ways it was really helpful for them to just be able to be around some pastors.

Dan Darling:

Why is it important to bring pastors to DC? I think about, first of all, when Dr., I run the Land Center here at Southwestern, but when Dr. Richard Land was president, he would bring pastors, you know, to DC to meet with legislators. But even some of our friends, I think of our friends at Family Research Council, you know, they’ll often bring evangelical pastors for advocacy days and things like that. Why is it important to do that? How does that help the work that we’re doing to have those voices in the capitol?

Brent Leatherwood:

Well, it’s the flip side of actually what I just mentioned in the previous answer. While sometimes we get accustomed to seeing or hearing from legislators on, you know, cable news channels or hearing from them on talk radio, and it can in some ways have a flattening effect on them, well, the reverse is true as well. Sometimes they can come to think of the Southern Baptist Convention of Pastors of Evangelicals as just kind of like a monolithic group. And I think bringing pastors to these leaders and encouraging those pastors to share observations about issues that they are dealing with, things that they are observing in their community, challenges to their own ministry efforts by, you know, potentially things being done by the state. I think that really gives those elected officials a sense of the immense good that our local churches are doing in their hometowns and their home counties and their areas.

And then also a real sense of how these policies that are being passed or being implemented, how they’re affecting churches and houses of worship and ministries. And so it helps to really flesh out in the minds of these legislators what all is going on within the Southern Baptist Convention and our network of churches. So yeah, I think it goes both ways. We want to help reveal the humanity of these legislators, and at the same time we wanna fully introduce them to all the ways that our pastors and church staffs, all the ways that they are active in their communities.

Dan Darling:

Yeah, it seems like there’s a dual purpose. I mean, on the one hand, pastors get to come to DC to see firsthand the work that the ERLC is doing in the nation’s capital. I think it’s similar to a mission trip or a lot of pastors will go on vision trips to a church plant area, church plant site to see firsthand the work. It’s good for that to happen because at the ERLC we operate because the churches have asked us to, and we operate to serve the churches. So it’s for them to see our work. But I also, you know, it’s great for us to be reminded, especially when we’re in DC, that we really exist to serve the churches and to see those pastors and to hear their stories of what they’re doing in their churches. So really both sides of that, right, as a reminder that ERLC does serve pastors and they serve churches, right?

Brent Leatherwood:

Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. A hundred percent correct.

Dan Darling:

I wanna talk a little bit about the importance of really the effectiveness of the work that we’re doing there and the relational aspect when it comes to advocacy. I think if you’re removed from DC sometimes it could be hard to understand how laws get passed. How do things get done? You know, you having a long time of policy experience, both having worked on the Hill for years and then working, running a state party and now doing this work. How important it is to have these relationships so that when something like this Planned Parenthood thing comes up that you can build on those relationships in order to get these things passed. Just talk about why that matters. I know we heard from the pastors, heard from Tim Goeglein, at focus on the family, our friend, and he was talking about how indispensable it is to have those longtime relationships that you can go into an office and say, hey, we Southern Baptists really would like to see this past. I’d like to see this law changed. So just share a little bit about that.

Brent Leatherwood:

We all want, put it this way, if you removed the ERLC and the Southern Baptist Convention, because let’s say you’re a really strict separationist, right, don’t fall into the trap of thinking that that doesn’t mean someone out there is not going to be shaping public policy. And we are an outward looking convention of churches. We are at our core, we are evangelicals. And I think that’s important to remember because it means we’re going into places to be salt and light and to spread the good news about Jesus. And so that necessarily takes us into the public square. And if we’re going to be there proclaiming the good news, we also want to be a voice that is effectuating good change or reform that actually betters our communities and our nation. And so providentially, we are a part of the largest Protestant denomination in this country, that really carries some weight.

And I think you can’t be in the rooms that we were in during this visit and not see the response that we were getting from these lawmakers about these issues and how deeply our pastors care about them and want to see meaningful reforms. I mean, I think it speaks for itself, right? Our convention is obviously very strong when it comes to the protection of preborn life and the dignity of our fellow human beings. But it also came through in that conversation about technology. We are passionate about putting in barriers so that children aren’t harmed by pornographic material on the internet. And we are deeply concerned about the ways that technology is racing forward well ahead of policymakers and certainly our nation’s laws. And the deep ethical questions that that is raising for individuals and families. You can see the ways that our pastors think through these issues and how that is reflected in the work of the ERLC for these lawmakers and the deep impact that it has.

Does that mean that we will get everything that we want all at once? No. And honestly, it’s unrealistic in the system that we have to expect that. But instead, you have to build these relationships over time and work to move the ball forward little by little. And sometimes that’ll be accomplished in great big leaps, right? The downfall of ROE through the Supreme Court, huge win. But now we find ourselves at a place where, okay, we’ve gotta be thinking through a 50 state strategy as well as how to remind legislators at the federal level that there’s still a role to play for the federal government preserving life. So I would say that’s some of the ways that this plays out. And it also just kind of illustrates the impact of this organization and the impact that it has had for over 100 years on our nation’s capitol.

Narration:

For pastors like Ben Bolin, the trip to DC allowed him to see up close the work that ERLC is doing every day in the nation’s capitol. He and other pastors were able to share their concerns with elected officials, see examples of those living out their faith in the public square, and challenge elected officials to move on issues that are of deep concern to Southern Baptists, such as advocating for the preborn and promoting a culture of life. 

Let’s turn to Ben’s conversation with Dan Darling.

Dan Darling:

Ben, great to have you on here and thanks for joining us today.

Ben Bolin:

Thank you so much, Dan. Great to be here with you. I’m grateful.

Dan Darling:

I wanted to talk a little bit about a few things. One, you know, thinking about the time we’re in and talking to your people about issues and preaching and application in the public square and you know, what are some things that you as a pastor think about when you’re approaching that? We just got through an election season last year, so we’re through that. But there’s always issues that come up either in the text or in the culture. And how are you thinking as you’re shepherding people in this time?

Ben Bolin:

I think the challenge for pastors and preachers is to recognize in the text these issues that we need to address that are still issues today. And then to not shy away from them because they’re also current issues. So I think number one, recognizing that, seeing that and addressing them faithfully. These are areas that go against what the Lord would have us to do. But then I also think there’s sometimes the flip side of that is we can get so engaged in a direct application of the text to a current day issue that we miss the theological bridge of, look, this is why, this is why God says this. And so I think leading not, to text says this, and then, so we’re gonna hound on soapbox, but leading people to think with a worldview theologically and letting people see how you get there. Not just this and this, but here’s where we want to go and here’s why. Because this is what this says about God. This is what this text says about God, and this is what our cultural moment says about God, about the gospel. And letting people see how you get there from the text. I think it gives them the tools that they can engage with as well.

Dan Darling:

Yeah, that’s really good. And obviously you preach, but you’re also, you study preaching working on your PhD at Southwestern in preaching. So you’ve studied that and have preached for a while. We recently had a chance, you and I had a chance to go to Washington DC with the ERLC to meet with other pastors, primarily from Texas, but from a few other states as well. We had the opportunity during this legislative session to meet with some members of Congress. And what did you think about that trip? You know, what did you, from that experience, what struck you during the time? I’m sure there’s several things, but I’m curious what struck you with that?

Ben Bolin:

Yeah, I think I’m still processing, honestly, like so jam packed and so rich that it’s just taken me a while to think through all of the little bits of it. But I think there’s such a recognition, one great fellowship to be there together to see what the ERLC is doing on the ground in real time. To play a role in that was just really encouraging to me. But I think you’re there and you’re like, man, this really is the center of the world where really the center of the world’s power is kind of all contained in this area. And we’re walking these halls and we’re talking to people who have incredible influence and then to walk at a time when the session’s in place where things are changing at a moment’s notice. And so I’m sitting there on Twitter flipping through the news of the day, watching things change as then I’m seeing these people in real time as well.

So I think that was just surreal to me. And then our meetings with these legislators to encourage them, to challenge them, to let them know, hey, there are issues that we need to not just let fall by the wayside, but things are deeply important to us. So yeah, I think the great fellowship around that shared vision, the weightiness in the moment. But ultimately I just came away so encouraged in meeting so many believers that are genuinely trying to live out their faith in a very difficult place to do it, to do it publicly, but to do it wisely and how they live this out. The Lord has just placed them in a strategic place and a strategic time just kind of in awe of what God is up to that I got to see a little bit of.

Dan Darling:

Yeah, it’s really surreal to sit there and you know, we’re sitting there with Senator Ted Cruz or Senator Langford or Mike Johnson, the speaker of the house. You know, these are people that you see on TV or you see like when you’re on the internet looking at news stories. Then to actually see them up close and personal. It’s like, man, ask them questions. I mean, you ask questions of some of the senators and it seems like it makes it, these are people, obviously they’re politicians, but you know, they’re not caricatures. They’re actual real people and many of them are Christians, right?

Ben Bolin:

That’s exactly right. They’re making history and they’re seeking to do it in a God-honoring way, sometimes putting them in a place that makes them a target. And yet also seeking to do it and caring for them. That’s one of the things that I loved was all the stories of a lot of these guys who are caring for pastors, even other legislators and staff members and saying, hey, this is, we’re gonna set aside these political things to really get to the heart of the issue. So the focus on evangelism really was a kind of a light bulb moment to just say, wow, they’re coming as people who have been sent by their churches, yes, sent by the people who they represent, but they’re coming also to share the light of the gospel to people.

Dan Darling:

I thought that was interesting. Senator Langford particularly seemed real keen on, you know, he leads a lot of Bible studies, he shares the gospel, Congressman Mark Walker, who we met with, former congressman, gave us this inside tour of the Capitol. But what’s interesting to hear him talk about is how every chance he gets, he shares the gospel with the president, with the president’s staff, with people in Congress, you know, you don’t think of someone going to Congress as, oh, I’m gonna go share the gospel. But it does make sense if you’re a Christian to do that. Did it surprise you to see how many Southern Baptists are working behind the scenes in the capitol too? I mean, it’s amazing.

Ben Bolin:

Really encouraging. Again, it’s, they never make the news. It’s not public. But it, yes, I came away with a passion to pray for these folks because they’re seeking to be faithful believers, faithful church members, and then also be faithful in the public sector. So I was really encouraged. Just to the Southern Baptists listening, the Lord’s doing some really unique and fun things. And you know, a lot of the representatives said that, even Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson just said, yeah, there’s some unique things the Lord seems to be doing in this place. And that just kind of makes the hair on your head, you know, your neck stand up. Because it’s like, wow, I can be at work here.

Dan Darling:

It was really cool. You know, speaker Mike Johnson is in the midst of this busy legislative session. They usually really don’t even take meetings because they’re trying to pass this massive reconciliation budget bill. And yet he did meet with us because he thought it was important to meet with, you know, 16 Southern Baptist pastors. And what I found interesting was him telling this story, and I don’t know if you found this interesting too, telling the story of when he was with President Trump after the second assassination attempt and how he’s helping Trump, the leader of the free world, and you’re helping him process a second assassination attempt. That had to be really sobering. But for him to tell that story was something.

Ben Bolin:

To be in the right place at the right time and then to have the courage to speak the right word. Again, you walk away going, God, this is not by accident that you’ve raised people for such a time as this.

Dan Darling:

As a pastor, you know, you pastor a Southern Baptist Church, churches like ours give to the cooperative program for a lot of things. Missions and church planting and education and all kinds of great things Southern Baptists do, but also a small portion goes to the ERLC to represent Baptists in the public square. It could probably be hard when you’re, you know, so many miles away from DC to think, okay, why do we need to do that? But did that give you kind of a sense of, okay, we really need a presence here?

Ben Bolin:

The biggest thing I walked away with is to have a presence in Washington, you’ve got to show up, you’ve got to be there on the ground and you gotta build relationships. And so I did, I gained such an appreciation of just the importance of showing up and the ERLC is there building those relationships. It’s incredibly vital. You know, we had the opportunity to meet with Sarah who’s working in Senator Thune’s office, Senate Majority Leader. And she’s just sharing her appreciation for the ERLC and the partnership. And again, a strong believer, Southern Baptist, the Lord’s placed in a place where she has incredible influence over our nation and direction. And that there’s this partnership that has formed. And she even changed her schedule so that she could meet with us when she heard we were there. It wasn’t originally on the itinerary, but when we were gonna bring the signatures for the defund Planned Parenthood by, she said, well, let me change some things because I want to meet with you guys. That shows to me a dedication of what the ERLC is doing in developing that relationship.

Dan Darling:

Yeah, it really is. I mean, they’re in the midst of trying to pass this bill and things are pretty fluid as a pastor. I mean, when you go on a trip like that and you come back, how did it make you think or maybe change the way you think about people locally, a people to shepherd, how to think about public officials? We met with some folks from Capitol Hill Baptist Church. They have public officials in their church all the time because they’re in DC but every church probably has a few folks that are at least school board or they’re serving in some place. How did it change the way that you think about pastoring your people and think about even Christians who are called to serve like that locally even?

Ben Bolin:

I think a couple things. I really did walk away with an increased fervor to pray at our church. Right now we’re doing some prayer and fasting on Thursdays. And so I’d gotten back there on Wednesday night or Thursday. We spent some time praying for some of these strategic folks we had met by name that I did not know before who were there. And so I think that’s a big part of it. I think also so many times politics is viewed as power. There’s certainly a draw to that and a temptation for that. But for me, pastors and churches should see it as a part of shepherding. We’re shepherding our people to a good and clear worldview to how to address politics and administrating the God-given power of a government in a wise way. But then these are real people who have real needs.

And so, they are targets constantly and everyone who meets with them wants something from them. So to me, coming as a pastor and saying Romans 13 talks about them as ministers for good, well the Lord has called me to that same thing. How do I then, come alongside and say, hey, how are, how are you doing? How’s your life? How’s your family? And then to hold their feet to the fire to say, hey, even when it would be an easier route, not do something specifically that the Lord calls us to do and is an important thing. Hey, will you stand in here? Is he worth it? Count that cost. As pastors, we have to do that as well. Not as a lobbyist, but as a shepherd to come alongside them to encourage them and then to encourage them not to shy away from the battle. It’s worth it.

Dan Darling:

Yeah, absolutely. I was struck too by how often I think Ted Cruz said this and James Langford said this and the congressman that we met, even Mike Johnson, how often they said you pastors have maybe one of the most important jobs in the country. So, and I don’t think they were just bluffing and saying that, you know, recognizing that as much as it is what they do in DC they really recognize the importance of the local church.

Ben Bolin:

And that’s the way it should be. Ideally. That if we don’t show up, if we don’t come to the table, then particularly not even just for Christians, but for those without a Christian worldview, can you imagine the pressure without the gospel in Christ to try to fix problems in our world. And so many, even that do not follow Christ, are taking on this burden beyond what scripture gives them in authority. Scripture does give them authority, but they’re taking this on because they don’t see the church as a viable solution to help. And some of that’s our own fault because we’ve said we’re not gonna engage at all or we’re gonna retreat instead of saying, hey, where can we come alongside not compromising what we believe, but we think we actually can help solve a lot of these problems in a better way, <laugh>. And that’s just not gonna happen if you don’t show up, if you don’t know them, if you don’t meet them and cultivate relationships with them. So to me, Dan, it really starts not in Washington, but starts in our local levels of government and caring for them. And as people rise through the ranks, you have a seat at the table to still encourage them and influence them and present the gospel.

Narration:

The ERLC was founded over a hundred years ago with a dual mandate to speak into the public square while equipping our pastors and churches with resources to engage the culture on moral and ethical issues. Service to our SBC churches and pastors is truly at the heart of our mission. We are grateful for the opportunity to take some of our SBC pastors to Washington to talk with our nation’s leaders about issues that matter most to Southern Baptists. We pray the result of their meetings will bear fruit and bring truth and hope to the public square for the sake of advancing the gospel. 

Thanks for listening to this episode of the ERLC podcast. Join us next time as we take a deeper look at the ELRC’s efforts to defund Planned Parenthood.